Hitherto Unknown Secrets !

One of the strongest points that  followers of Karna [ as invincible] have is the words of Krishna  praising Karna ,on the eve of death of Ghatotkach . Krishna say’s

  • Karna is given to austereties
  • Karna is one abiding by bramhins and Devatas
  • Karna is not given to falsehood .
  • [He says to PArshuram ,I am anatha , all orphans and other creatures as well  are children of GOD,You are GOD and YOU are Bramhin , thus I said I am bramhin  ]
  • KArna cannot be slayed by INDRA ,YAMA ,VARUNA
  • KArna , cannot be vanquished not even Sudarshan Chakra 
  • All this because He has Kavach kundal.

    What was so great about Kavach Kundal . It was an armour given as boon to KARNA by SURYA .

    Can a boon by Surya make Karna invincible even to Devatas and Narayana ? let us analyse ;

     

    • Nivat kavach rakshas too had boon of kavach , Nothing could pierce the kavach . Kavach could not be cut or destroyed by Devatas . This was the boon given to nivat kavach by BRAMHA .
    • Indra gives his vajrayudh and Kirit [ hence ARJUN is called KIRITI] to ARJUN and sends him to fight with nivat kavach . Arjun destroys the Kavach of nivath kavach and makes Indra happy . [ boon is overtaken]
    • Jarasandha had boon of SHiva , never to die and be immortal , but BHeema kills him [ boon is surpassed ] .
    • JAyadrath had boon that he would be invincible to all PAndavs , but as Pashupat astra was given to Arjun , Shiva made it clear that except Arjun he would be invincible over Pandavs but only for a day . Bheema earlier had overtaken Shiva boon , but here HE let the boon happen , for Abhimanyu had to die .[ boon honoured ]
    • Kaalyavan had a boon by SHiva that He would Kill Krishna , but contrarily he died at the sight of MUCHIKUNDA . [boon overtaken][ boon to muchikunda honoured]
    • Samshaptakas had boon from Shiva [ not to lose in a battle ] but lose terribly to Arjun [ boon overtaken]
    • Kritavarma had a boon from Krishna , that he would be Invincible on a chosen day [ boon honoured ]
    • Satyaki had a boon from Krishna , that he would be invincible for a day [ boon honoured when he defeats all the kauravas]
    • Bhagadatta had a vaishnav astra from VARAHA Vishnu [ boon honoured ,as no PAndav ventured as long as he had the astra , when Krishna took on himself , he was killed by PAndav ] boon nullified .
    • Shrutdhanva had a mace which would make him invicible but would hit him back if he used it on unarmed , it fell on Krishna and his head blew up . [ boon nullified ]

    SO at times boons were honoured and at times boons were dishonured to show that KRISHNA is the master of the UNIVERSE and not the bestower of these boons . Thus he indicrimintaley ,randomly , honoured or dishonoured at his will . The fact that boons were dishonoured shows mere boons does not make one INVINCIBLE .

    Krishna’s Sudarshan has never come back without destroying the enemy when used . SO karna cannot be immuneto it , As even greater Rakshasas having boons of invincibilty are known to have succumbed to SUDARSHAN CHAKRA . Bhagavat is testimony to it , Entire puranas sing glory of VISHNU with CHAKRA having never failed .  Krishna has shrouded SUN himself with the Chakra [ jayadrath killing ], when SUN himself was overpowered , where his boons stand .

    KARNA is mere a mortal and pitiable mortal at that .

    WIth KAVACH kundal on he was vanquished by many . There is a incident in the mahabharata where , bheema hits the kavach during RAJASUYA digvijay , it hurts KArna to the point of death , just to honour Parshuram’s words and Surya’s boon , he does not break it .

    Karna accepts the soverignty of YUDHISTHIR and pays taxes . RAjsuya yagya is completed .[ without KArna accepting defeat , this Yagnya would not have deemed complete as Raajsuya is meant for rulership of all the world , KArna was part of world .

    No great warrior gives /accepts Superiority till his life/death , only when HE has love of LIFE , he accepts defeat . Karna feared losing LIFE despite KAVACH KUNDAL . This is also reflected in GANDHARVA episode , KARNA was captivated , a warrior will give life rather than get captivated , One gets captivated when he is helpless and fears LIfe . otherwise war takes place unto death .

    SO kavach and Kundal were not something that could save KArna’s LIFE . Sudarshan is a highest weapon , its use  would definitely KIll KARNA , but as lord VOWED not to use weapons , using SUDARSHAN was unwarranted . ALSO as PArshuram Lord has promised protection to KARNA as long as he is without jealousy . BUT KARNA could never get rid of JEALOUSY towards ARJUN to the point he could not abide by LORD KRISHNA and KUNTI and SURYA [ the giver of KAVACH] .

    It was KArna’s inability to overcome SHADVAIRI [ KAAM KRODHA LOBHA MADA MOHA  MATSARYA ] that made him lose despite all the boons . ALl the good fortunes became useless ,

    • His repentance of not having Drona’s tutorship was well compensated by PARSHURAM [ Drona ‘s guru ] that made him equal to Drona himself [ is it not good fortune ]
    • He was made KING of ANGA even before YUDHISTHIRA could acquire a KINGDOM [ is it not good fortune ]
    • His skills were acknowledged and was parised everywhere [ is it not good fortune ]
    • He acquired ANother half of ANGA rajya from JARASANDHA [ is it not good fortune ]
    • EVEN when PAndavs were langusihing in forests , HE always had a Kingdom of his own and an emperor as a freind [ is it not good fortune ]
    • He had the protection of highest KInd [ KAVACH and KUndal] is it not good fortune .
    • His father SURYA always spoke to him in the times of distress [ Is it not good fortune ]
    • He was recognised by the whole world as a potential rival to ARJUN by whole world [ takshak’s son chose him to take revenge ] is it not good fortune . [ getting support of enemies enemy ]
    • He was even offered a chance to Rule over his Rival ARJUN by KRISHNA [ is it not a good fortune ]
    • Except for the sanskara of SUTA all his life he led a life akin to a glorified  KSHATRIYA .[ is it not a good fortune ]

    He turned a blind eye to all these fortunes and out of ego , pride and jealousy , sided with the evil and lost all the fortune and perished . KAvach KUndal were for his safety till He grew into an adult , boons are meant for doing good in this world , when one misuses them they are taken back . INDRA took back the KAVACH because KArna had to be killed for his misdeeds . Boon of SURYA would be falsified . GOD CHOSE TO HONOUR SUN . [ ALSO IT SAVED KARNA FROM UTTER DISGRACE again good fortune ].

    MORAL : Never succum to shadvairi[ KAAM KRODHA LOBHA MADA MOHA MATSARYA] , all your good fortunes notwithstanding you shall perish unaided by LORD KRISHNA .

     

    krishnarpana

    Comments on: "Lord Krishna Praises Karna!" (253)

    1. The above article mentions about the boon of karna, about his luck ..but I think it should begin from an earlier part…kunti orphaning his own son (the greatest misfortune according to me …not to have own mothers love). The boon part …he never bosted as adult of his kavach…he didnt even knew surya was his farher ..only later he came to know about it…his hatred towards Arjun though not justified was obivious….Dronacharya khew he was greater to arjuna….should not a man with quality deserved to be trained??…..parsuram agreed to teach him when he lied he was a bhraman…parsuram took oath to teach only khastriya and brhaman..and by birth karna was a khsatriya (kunti’s son)…shouldn’t have parsurams curse be nullified…why did it not get nullified….why is it that only boons are nullified and not curse…krishna knew of it ( as a god) should he have been compensated….didnt arjun commit a crime by killing his elder brother..??? are all this justified….plz answer…

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      • KARNA was Kshatriya by birth , but a suta by SANSKAARA . , KARNA did LEARN from DRONCHARYA only .. he was trained as well .. BUT karna was not satisfied with the training according to his sanskaar , he wanted to KILL ARJUN and hence he wanted BRAMAHSTRA .. bramhastra is not taught to people who have no sense control ..KARNA was given to emotions anger and falsehood .. for such people bramahastra is not taught ..Thus DRONACHARYA refused to teach him .. THUS to learn bramhastra HE lied to PARSHURAM as bramhana .. so that he can learn bramahastra ,, PARSHURAM lord though taught him cursed him to be of no use .. THE MOAL is if you trick to learn something DESTINY tricks you to make that learning futile .

        note KARNA knew since childhood SURYA was his FATHER .. it was a boon that kunti asked to SURYA to protect him since childhood as a father would do .. so the lamenting of orphaning does not apply , nor was he orphan .. he was looked after by one of the richest couples in city .. giving all sorts of comfort .. WHAT a child would know who he was born to if he is HAPPILY raised by a RICH parents . ADHIAT was CHARIOTEER to EMPEROR of entire WORLD ..that alone is enough how much rich he was .. PLUS when KARNA was boxed , it contained most precious jewels which could look after him for eternity .. so this PSEUDO feeling of orphan is UNJUSTIFIED ..KARNA comes to know of his parentage only when INDRA tells him . that is when he is past 70 years of age . at that age do you really feel pain of being not brought by your original mother .. UNREALISTIC sympathy ..

        and again at a young age he became KING .. what else GOD needs to compensate him .. he was protected by SUN since childhood , given kavach kundal , he was taught by GOD , MADE a KING everything in world was given to him .. where is the LACUNA .. all he was supposed to do was SIDE by RIGHTEOUSNESS .. he was evil thus he perished .. SYMPATHY is misplaced

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    2. if your selfrespect is affected by someone’s words & yet you keep calm and say or do nothing then you’re a coward, selfrespectless, good for nothing human. Tell me if you’re being denied to compete with a Prince just b’coz you’re a SUTPUTRA, wouldn’t you take it as a humiliation ? This happened to Karna, he was told by arjun that he (arjun) will not compete with a sutputr. Now decide, who started this rivalry.

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      • Rivalry did not start then , rivalry was within jealousy of KARNA when he asked for upadesha of bramahstara [ to hill arjun ] from DRONACHARYA ..that was decades before the competition .. KARNA knew in ordinary archery he is no MATCH to ARJUN .. so he wanted better astras and highest astras which only BRAMHANAS were taught .. thus he shunned DRONACHARYA and went to PARSHURAAM .. here he lied because he knew he would not be taught bramahstra .. NOW LORD parshuram taught him bramhastra [ seeing his zeal and to encourage DUryodhan wage a war against pandavas banking on KARNA in future ] .. but cursed him so that the could not recollect it at nick of the moment … JUSTICE of GOD is equanimous .

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    3. Dear Members,

      The main aim of studying Ramayana, Mahabharata which is yudha between dharma and adharma,which goes on in this samsara.When we see the end result there is a win to Dharma the Lord.Who ever stood by dharma or Lord were victorious.One cannot say he is dharmic and support adharma silently.Those who do not abide by Dharma,will not be spared is the message,and those who are with dharma will have a Vijaya.
      Every thought will be brought in action,if we just think at some moment that karna was great who fought against Pandavas,it seems one is sinning unknowingly.
      Beaware says the shastras.

      Thanks
      Pramod.

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    4. “Arjuna could not stand the expertise of Karna and invited him to fight on that stage”

      Your interpretation was this statement indicates Jealousy. There is cause and effect mismatch at a very basic and intuitive level this fundamental flaw was exposed by an illustration which is very apt here inline with the original context a very simplified and uncluttered illustration just taking into account the very factors which made you conclude what you concluded.

      In fact original Mahabharatha encompasses all that there is in this world its an all pervasive case study with real superhuman elements far beyond the reach pigmys of Kaliyuga. Madhvacharya did a great favor by writing MBTN which gives concrete clues as how to decipher MahaBharata. MBTN is multidimensional every Verse can be interpreted in multitude of ways. And no translator can even hold a candle to MBTN as English language lacks the very basic constructs through which real essence can be transmitted.

      Under above constraints the illustration though very flawed very appropriately captures what was meant by you and very accurately counters it. The ultimate agenda is very grotesquely evident unconcealed under a garb of conceit and false entitlement to scholarship.

      To top it all deviant behavior duplicity treachery only indicate to a perverted sick psyche unworthy of any attention what so ever. What else can be inferred by when a person engages in such elaborate fraudulent and mindless charade as exhibited by you.

      You are using several different id’s Ms Niraj / Madhavi / xyz. Though this by itself doesnt prove anything but what follows is more deviant and moronic exhibition of stupidity and perverse intellect.

      As xyz you frame a flawed proposition as Niraj you counter it you only know to what design !!
      “Mr. XYZ you have misunderstood statement”

      Then you Pose as Madhavi to test the waters Then again your alter ego Niraj suddenly finds an entry with an emphatic.
      “Brilliant answer Madhaviji.”

      This is what exactly stupid dumb Tamoyogyas have been doing all since time immemorial. This streak as Dambodhbhava in Karna is being shunned and warned against by Acharya Madhva in MBTN. This is why stupid fools indulge in Hari Dwesha and go to hell. Even Karna would be terribly ashamed of your unworthy persona and behavior. Stop creating a nuisance try to instill a sense of purpose and Hari Bhakti thats the only way.

      Except Vayu every other jeeva is flawed in some sense or other. Vayu is our leader our guide our mentor and only well wisher only he can deliver us to Hari Bhakti………..!!!

      Hari Sarvottamma Vayu Jivottamma !!

      Krishnarpanamastu.

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    5. The translation clearly says ” Arjuna could not stand the expertise of Karna and invited him to fight on that stage” . Its not excitement mentioned. But the words could not stand the expertise of karna
      There is a difference between a fight and a tennis match. Your Nadal federer theory is irrelevant. . Your other statement ” Likewise just imagine if Karna had ignored his father later when everyone would learn about his family background wouldn’t that be more awkward for him !!! So acknowledging his father was the best thing he could have done.!!!” this is your statement not mentioned in the translation. Analysis has to be done by observations and conclusions of great people ( like those present in that assembly ) not imagination. I am not an expert on MBTN but you have not nullified any of the quotes above. All your rantings are more on a personal level.

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    6. Brilliant answer Madhaviji.

      MBTN is quite generous towards Karna as well. It also explains why Karna could not capture Drupad.
      Drupad had a boon from Surya that he is invincible within 100 yojanas of his kingdom. And since Karna was a devotee of Surya he respected that boon. This is why the panchalas who defeated him here could not do much against him at kukukshetra. Infact the reaction of Panchalas on seeing Karna there was quite similar to the victorious pehelwaans reaction on watching Salman Khan take of his shirt in the title song of the movie dabang..
      Below is list of defaulers who have done some things against Sri Krishna. Observation which I made is that they are all positive characters who have gone against Sri Krishna. This list of positive characters
      includes Arjuna, bheeshma and even Drona. It also includes Karna but DOES NOT include the villains like Shakuni Duryodhana Dushasana Jayadratha as they were gone cases. My humble understanding is that MBTN considers Karna too in the list of positive characters.

      Drona and others, Shiva and other demi-gods breach of Dharma
      droNakarNadrauNikR^ipAH 1kR^ishhNAbhAve mano dadhuH |
      devAH shivAdyA apitu 2virodhaM chakrire kvachit.h || 18.25||
      25. Dronacharya, Karna, Ashwattama and Kripacharya are the people who had made up their minds to kill Sri Krishna. Demi-gods led by Shiva have also opposed Sri Krishna sometimes.
      Notes:
      1. While fighting, Drona shot arrows at Sri Krishna and tried to hurt him. He shot arrows at him just as he would shoot arrows at any ordinary charioteer. Karna rejected Sri Krishna’s words directly. Ashwattama had planned to receive Chakra from Sri Krishna and use the same to kill him. (28/156, 157). Even Kripacharya is one among the traitors of Sri Krishna by taking Duryodhana’s side.

      Devaki, Vasudeva and Bheeshma’s breach of Dharma
      devakIvasudevAdyA menire mAnushhaM harim.h |
      bhIshhmastu bhArgavaM rAmamavamene1 yuyodha cha || 18.24||
      24. Devaki and Vasudeva thought Krishna was Mortal Human. Bhishma insulted Parashurama who is another form of Sri Hari. He even fought with Parashurama
      Notes:
      Though Devaki, Vasudeva, Nandagopa and Yashoda were very pious, they mistook Sri Krishna as a human – their son. Bhishma insulted Parashurama who is one among the 10 incarnations of Sri Hari by not following his instructions. He even went on war with him. This means that Bhishma who is the grandshire of the Kuru dynasty and a follower of Bhagavtadharma also could not escape from committing such a mistake.

      Nakula, Sahadeva’s breach of Dharma
      nakulaH karadAnAya 1 preshhayAmAsa keshave |
      avamene harerbuddhiM sahadevaH kulaxayAt.h2 || 18.23||
      23. Nakula sent people to Sri Krishna asking him to pay tribute. Sahadeva insulted Sri Krishna’s policy by telling that his policies lead to destruction of their clan.

      syamantakArthe rAmo.api 2kR^ishhNasya vimanA.abhavat.h3 |
      avamene.arjunaH4 kR^ishhNaM viprasya shishuraxaNe || 18.19||

      19. Even Balarama got upset with Sri Krishna due to Syamantaka Gem. Arjuna insulted Sri Krishna during the incident of giving protection to Brahmana’s baby.

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      • Again many points raised are utterly redundant, logic is absent, no grasp of basic concepts, farcical conclusions and pathetic sense of humor !!! To top it all deviant behavior.

        You are quoting MBTN and even fail to understand the very basic premises and most fundamental frameworks. Do go through MBTN with a clear mind and try to understand Taratamya only then we can go any further. Many points you have raised only fortify the concept of gradation and Taratamya. If you approach Madhva shastra with deviant and sick mind only viprareet gyan will result as evident.

        Don’t invite misfortune and misery by indulging in wrong interpretation of Madhva shastra, Mithya vaada and Vipareet gyan

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        • heheheh….very nice reply Guruji :D

          Indeed niraj u must take Guruji’s advice and go into hibernation for another 3 yrs or so :D

          No not for so long, if you will go how will we have our entertainment! :P

          I am still laughing indeed……awesome Guruji:))

          Which version of MAHABHARTA have you been reading anyways niraj ! :p
          U seem to be some deluded soul……how about learning something from the blog if u don’t understand things yourself??

          Blog is meant for learning only (because apparently it seems you haven’t yet fathomed the purpose of this blog! it’s meant to clear doubts only but atleast your questions have to a little intelligble for that! :P u need to undertake further study of mahabharta and come up with some more bizzarre arguments and illogical discussions…………hopefully by the end of this life you will learn something…….a doctor check up might be required as well since your mind doesn’t seem to be working logically enough!)

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      • If you are the same Niraj from almost 2 and half years back then I am not surprised you look for any opportunity to repeat baseless comments on Karna`s post.

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        • Sonu. Responded to both yours and keshavs insutling languge on your personal email id.

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        • @Niraj

          This statement of yours proves beyond doubt that you are not here to learn the truth… but to stick to your tamas beliefs no matter what… and wouldn’t hesitate to use abusive language… you are true vitanda vaadi… khud toh zaroor doobege…. apne saath aur kitnon ko le doobne ka iraada hai? it’s people like you who are spoiling the sancitity of this blog… I can only pity your admant admiration for Karna… if you had a fraction of this enthusiasm for fandom of HARI then you will have done well with this rare gift of human birth…

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        • Niraj sent to me on email

          “Whatever I have studied from various sources I am convinced of the following aspects
          Karna was equal to Arjuna in archery. He was a positive character in Mahabharata. He was NOT conquered by Bhima or anyone in rajsooya yagna.

          “Below is the extracts which I found on internet on the MBTN
          Mahabharatha Tatparya Nirnaya
          Rajasuya yaga
          Sri Vedavyasa arrived and instructed Yudhishtira to make all preparations. He instructedBhimasena to undertake digvijayayatra. The benefit of the sacrifice goes to that person whoplays the principal role. Bhima was eligible for the benefit of Rajasuya viz. the position of Brahma. Therefore, Sri Vedavyasa asked Bhima to play the principal role by undertaking digvijayayatra. Arjuna pleaded that he has the chariot, bow etc necessary requirements for digvijayayatra and he is also interested in digvijayayatra. However, Sri Vedavyasa said Kichaka; Karna etc will give tributes to Bhima without much grumbling, ( here we see Sri Vyasa sanctioning that Karna will not battle Sri Vyasa was a highly influential person hence even by what I have found out on MBTN its sanctioned that on Vyasas instructions Karna paid tribute but that does not mean defeat as tribute and defeat are 2 different things ) therefore, he should lead digvijayayatra. He directed Arjuna to go to Saptadvipa, Patala etc regions and bring tributes. Bhima went to Virata kingdom and collected tributes from Kichaka. Then, he went to Cedi kingdom collected tributes from Shishupala. Kunti’s sister Srutasrava was the mother of Sishupala. She advised him to pay the tributes. ( see Rajsooya does not mean all defeated in battle )
          Bhima collected the tributes from Paundraka Vasudeva and Karna. He went to the city of Banasura and collected the vast wealth from him. Arjuna defeated the tribal rules like abhira and nisada. He obtained tributes from Bhagadatta. ( Bhagdatta had the Vaishnava weapon hence he may be inferior to Bhima but not to Arjuna becoz when he fired the Vaishnava weapon the Lord had to come in between and the weapon became a garland of flowers – Arjuna could not kill Bhagdatta without Krishnas help in kurukshetra hence its proven tribute and defeat are 2 different things. ) He wandered over nine varshas viz Kimpurusha, Harivarsa, Ilavrita, Bhadrasva, Ketumala, hiranmya, Ramyaka, kuru and Bharata varsa itself. He brought huge tributes from this area. ( tribute and defeat are treated differently as bharat varsa is also mentioned surely Arjuna could not have defeated Krishnas kingdom or Bheeshma ) He also went into seven patalas won the demons and the deities and brought the tribute even from Bali Chakravarti.( Bali chakravarty was under Vishnus protection hence tribute demons won over tribute again from Bali )
          The Rajasuya sacrifice was started.
          Prof.K.T.Pandurangi
          Coming to the insults of Keshav if I choose to retaliate he would not know what hit him. I am unaffected as there is a saying kutte ke bhokne ka haathi ki chaal pe koi asar naheen hota.”

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          • So according to NEERAJ [ just to prove that defeat and paying tribute is not same ] Keeachak paundrak vasudev Shishupala etc gave tributes owing to intense devotion towards HARI …. KEechak had devotion paundrak vasudev had devotion towards HARI is wht Neeraj has studied deeply .. what a conclusion .. and the funny thing is without studying MAHABHARATA ,, where it is clearly mentioned KARNA has his kavach brken in Raajsuya yagnya seeing his dismal state he agrees to pay tributes … he argues that owing to vedvyasa words which KEECHAKA obliged out of devotion [ VEDVYASA was no KING and KEECAHAKA was no follower of Dharma else his death would not have been in the hands of BHEEMA whom he hated to the core .. ] durig viraat parva Duryidhan makes a statement enuerating Keechaka jarasandha duryodhan and Salva as equal opponents yet no match for BHEEMA , this is made because salva was defeated in svyamvar keechaka in Rajsuuya Jarasndha also prior to Raajsuya ..

            If Keechak KARNA PAUNDRAKA vasudeva Shishupala were supposedly giving tributes primarily owing to VEDVYASAji’s words , they should be giving it even when ARJUN had gone for DIGVIJAYAYATRA …Why should VEDVYASA advise ARJUN to refrain and BHEEMA to GO .. [ I think NEeraj forgets logic intermittently in eecstasy to dogmatically stick to his failed arguments years ago where he had run away from arguments under pretext of being busy only to polish his logic and debating skills .. and it took him years to garner confidence to rake up the discussion and that too with miserable logic ]
            if devotion to LORD could get tributes by order of VEDVYASA .. RAAJSUYA yagnya would beocme a farcical exercise .. anybody can approach VEDVYAS and say please order all of the kings to pay tribute and I WILL complete YAGNYA and Also become eligible for post of BRAMHA . why alone BHEEMA is entitled .. [ i think another bizzare illogical explanation neeraj will of course come up albiet after three years ]

            here ARJUN was refrained to go east because KARNA had KAvach KUndal and would not be killed ARJUN and battle may take many days .. YAGNYA had a muhurta to complete .. KEECHAK had Rudra vara .. SHISHUPALA and P VASUSDEV were supposedly to be killed by KRISHNA so in case battle ensues it would not be easy as these would not let ARJUN pass by easily … BUT with BHEEMA entire Kshatriya clan had fear and no doubt about their defeat before BHEEMA .. and hence would surrender meekly [ that is called as defeat ] owing to fear of life … with ARJUN surrender would not be possible ..as each had boon from superior RUDRA … which ARJUN cannot overcome …
            but if devotion were major cause as studied [ i dont know what his study constitutes seeing what is not intended ] by neeraj even ARJUN should have been advised why ARJUN even NAKUL could have been sent and KARNA could have given tribute .,. why NAKUL a small sergeant could also have been sent with aletter from VEDVYASA saying please KARNA I am HARI kindly pay tributes its my orders and se PANDAVAS shuld be declared KING OF KINGS and you oblige you are a worthless inferior warriror before PANDAVAS kindlya ccept their supremacy over WORLD and cede them tribute [ kindly note ceding the supremacy is not defeat as per NEERAJ ] so why BHEEMA had to be advised to GO and NOT ARJUN …

            I think neeraj you must go into hibernation for another few more years to study and come up with some more distraughted logic … i think blog members have enough reasons to laugh …
            KEECHAK SHISHUPALA PAUNDRAK VASUDEV KARNA all in same breath you are exclaiming them to have respected VEDVYASA’s words .. PAUNDRAKA VASUDEV CLAIMED himslef to be a VISHNU and did not think KRISHNA was VISHNU’s avatara ,.how come he acknowledged VEDVYASA .. just because KARNA’s name appeared you elevate these to the level of devotees having ceded KINGDOM to YUDHISTHIR .. just on words of a sage .. how ridculous is your argument …

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            • WHat Neeraj has studied is entire RAAJSUYA yagnya went off without a single fight ensuing in eastern direction for BHEEMA and northern direction for Arjun western direction by NAKUL and southern by Sahdev
              all just went for a pleasure ride on horse back towards all directions of earth and came back with enormous booty which everyone gladly gave them owing to immense respect and honour on the words of SAGE VEDVYASA and words of near and dear one … and YUDHISTHIR had a cakewalk and became Ek chatra SARVABHAUMA of the universe ..
              and despite being so easy [ just few words of LORD put so much sense in even supporters of DURYODHAN that they agreed to YUDHISTHIR being head of all the states ..] forgetting enemity and world was such a nice place to be in .. and yet for a simple laugh of Draupadi and Duryodhan becoming annoyed … entire humanity became enemies of PANDAVAS and MAHABHARATA war ensued …
              it seems NEERAJ study has brought forward a new socio political scenario in mahabharata times where KINGS of entire world east west north south and sapta lokas heeded to voice of GOOD VEDVYASA ji to become one under single roof of PANDAVAS …even though they did not like PANDAVAS … and same people joined DURYODHANA to fight with pandavas later [ and here great study of NEERAJ reveals that VEDVYASA did not choose to advise kins not to fight and not to allign with DURYODHAN and avoid war … or perhaps study is pointing at the fact that despite VEDVYASA jis words KINGS chose to ignore him out of fear of Duryodhan and joined him to oppose PANDAVAS .. so the great understanding is KINGS had selective ability of honoring VEDVYAS words ]
              or they felt perhaps earlier BHEEMA was asking only tribute so why not give it .. now its war so lets have some fun .. and also earn some favpor of DURYODHAN because first time we listened to vEDVYAS and pANDav and now its our moral duty to support the other brothers Kaurav ,, hisaab barabar … its a wonderful study Dr neeraj ]

              Like

        • Here is another email sent to me from Niraj

          “In continuation cant have a debate where instead of nullifying arguments personal insults are being hurled on the opponent and when the opponent reverts his answers are conveniently censored to prove your self winner. Coming to Ushas allegation one by one I will nullify her points.
          This statement of yours proves beyond doubt that you are not here to learn the truth
          Ans. You people are not paramgyani antaryami either. Our current stage is we are seekers of truth.
          but to stick to your tamas beliefs no matter what… and wouldn’t hesitate to use abusive language… you are true vitanda vaadi…
          Ans. No where I have insulted my opponent. Its my opponents who have indulged in it.
          Her stupid question
          khud toh zaroor doobege…. apne saath aur kitnon ko le doobne ka iraada hai?
          Ans. Its funny insaan to apne bhavishya ka to pata naheen lekin doosre ke bhagya pe apneaap ko supreme authority maante hain. She reminds me of the astrologer scene in lage rahoo munna bhai film.
          it’s people like you who are spoiling the sancitity of this blog… I can only pity your admant admiration for Karna… if you had a fraction of this enthusiasm for fandom of HARI then you will have done well with this rare gift of human birth…
          Ans. Has she measured my devotion to Lord Ram ? Can one mortal decide the destiny of another.”

          Like

        • Niraj! My ask to you is please do not email me and insult genuine followers of this blog behind their back. Happy to communicate on here in the right manner and without getting emotional. At the end of the day you can believe what ever you like, you have proven you dont believe what your are taught here, so why following this blog for years?

          Like

        • @ Niraj

          Please do not pester people like Sonu ji. You can put forth your grievances on public forum. When you don’t respect Madhva Shastra how can you find respect among people who feel hugely indebted to Acharya Madhva antargat Laxmi Narsimha depending on divine grace in trying to make some sense of this human life!!

          After the behavior you have displayed you shouldn’t feel surprised if you are not welcomed until you mend your ways.

          Like

        • @Niraj

          Tell me one thing Mr. Niraj…. why do you indulge in this debate for so long? What is your goal of life? Is it defending Karna till your last breath? Or is it striving towards attaining moksha? Karna is Surya avatara with Narayana avesha… still he is a jeeva depending on Mukhyaprana Devaru for getting rid of linga deha… Karna is not going to give you moksha… so matter how much you sing Karna’s glories you can satisfy your ego but it won’t help in taking you towards moksha…

          Only SHRIMAN NARAYANA will give moksha and nobody else… If you are sticking only to Karna you are definitely going downhill and that’s what I said… you are missing the whole point of life in this futile pursuit. And regarding my future, thank you very much for your comments… by my Guruji’s kripa I know what my future is.

          If you are such big a devotee of SHRI RAAMA why don’t you spend time in Raama naama japa and leave this blog alone? Or may be you can try it out once, when you have a problem try calling Karna… ‘Oh Karna please save me…’ and see if it works… then you can decide who should you be actually singing glories of… best of luck…

          Like

        • Yes Sir…kaafi entertainment ho raaha hai….iss page par aur…KARNA vs ARJUN par usually hota rehta hai… :)

          Like

        • People are doing wrong study of Mahabharata by Lord VedaVyasa and MBTN also… this shows how much kali can influence anyone…

          @Niraj
          Niraj it’s never too late… everyone is bound to make mistakes… it’s about time you shelve your pride, shake off this dismal attitude and take shelter of Rayaru antargat Hanuman antargat Shri Raama for your own good ….. or no amount of explanation will go into your head and you will see wrong in right and right in wrong… and that leads to undesirable consequences…

          Like

        • Usha – Niraj has been a follower and debater (mainly on Karnas posts) on this blog longer than many others. Niraj`s posts on this blog and emails gives evidence no amount of explanation has made a difference so far. Kali`s influence certainly does show, by the grace of God he has landed himself on this blog, but not willing to learn, understand and accept the truth. I find his recent posts and emails hilarious as that is the best he can come up with even years/months/days down the line, showing no improvement in learning. I wouldn’t even be shocked if it took him months/days to compile his posts. Also don’t be surprised if you see quotes from Swami Vivekananda

          Like

    7. Anon. As regards your statement of me securing a one way ticket to Hell, I will say that its only Shri Hari who decides who goes to hell. Coming to your other statement chor chor mausere bhai and Karna admiring Jarasandha. let me tell you that there are records of Balrama admiring Duryodhana. That does not make Balrama evil or evil like Duryodhana. Filmy dialogues cant be used for a mahabharata anaylisis. In his youth vishwamitra did a penance to gain astras to defeat vashishtha. and vishwamitra went on to be a venerable person. Hence I dont see anything wrong in Karna going to Sri Parshurama for astravidya. However I concede he should not have lied.

      Like

      • Again kindly look at wordings of my sentence

        those who do not approach sacred scriptures to learn and understand the greatness of Hari but to create unnecessary claims to scholarship and wisdom end up getting vipareet gyan. Persistence to this approach would ultimately end up in securing a one way ticket to Hell.

        Its for you to decide what your approach to scriptures is the above statement is not solely directed towards any individual, a persons approach may or may not be same it can change from one end of the spectrum towards another. But the context, logic, commitment and above all intentions decide the appropriateness of actions.

        A jigyasu with guidance from an able preceptor and bhakti towards Hari learns to read between the lines and delineate the finer points gradually and eventually. But to what extent is dependent on a persons inherent capability and Bhakti towards Hari.

        Vishwamitra also consumed a dog’s meat a malicious and unintelligent person would keep on harping on this point and use it as a ruse to justify his own actions he would even start wrecking a havoc on the population of dogs stating if Vishwamitra can do it so can he. So all the examples have to observed through a lens under scrutiny of context, logic, commitment and intentions.

        If one has reverence for Krishna if one even partially believes that Krishna is GOD then the next logical step should be to accumulate as much knowledge of Hari Sarvottamma tatva. It would be counterproductive if one keeps calling Sri Krishna God and keep putting constraints on him, attributing imperfections and indulging in other such actions. This would eventually lead to vipareet gyaan and faulty actions.

        Like

        • Madhavi

          Good answer. But a malicious and unintelligent person can also keep harping on the point of the dog eating scene and refuse to acknowledge the greatness of Vishwamitra. Once he is declared as a brahmarishi his misadventures like the dog eating episode or menaka episode can’t be used as an excuse to challenge his greatness. Saw some translations from MBTN.

          kuntI nijaM sutaM j~nAtvA lajjayA nAvadachcha tam.h | pArtho.asaha.nstaM yuddhAyaivA.ahvayAmAsa saMsadi || 18.35||

          Translation.

          Though Kunti recognized him as her son, she did not say so out of shame. Arjuna could not stand the expertise of Karna and invited him to fight on that stage.

          Here above translation says its Arjuna who got jealous and its Arjuna who challenged Karna for a fight.

          Another chapter.
          Karna’s Devotion towards his father

          abhishhikte tadA karNe prAyAdadhirathaH pitA | sarvarAjasadomadhye vavande taM vR^ishhA
          1tadA | tutushhuH karmaNA tasya santaH sarve samAgatAH || 18.39||

          Translation.

          As Karna was being coronated his father Atirtha arrived there. Karna prostrated to him in theassembly filled with all the kings. Seeing his conduct all the virtuous people rejoiced. As Karna was being coronated his father Atirtha arrived there.Karna immediately bowed to him with respect. Though Karna knew that by bowing to Atiratha, it will be provedthat he is a charioteer, he did not hesitate to bow to him. His pure devotion towards hisfather was the reason for this. This means that observing such great quality of Karna, allthe virtuous people assembled there were very happy. vRusha means Karna. Because of this everyone realized that, Bheema recognizing him as charioteer was very appropriate.2.Since Karna was very generous and also truthful man he was called as vRusha

          Above translation says that Karna was not all that bad and genuinely generous not a fake danveer. He may no be as great as Bhima but then no one was.

          Like

        • ” its Arjuna who got jealous and its Arjuna who challenged Karna for a fight.”

          The translation doesn’t indicate this. Arjuna gets excited to see a worthy opponent and acknowledges it. Just imagine if Nadal and Federer are having a go on court and some unseeded player makes an entry and starts exhibiting some nice fancy serve and amazing strokes. Seeing this Federer acknowledges his prowess and invites him for a match it doesn’t mean Federer is jealous of the unseeded player etc. And suppose McEnroe says to Fed not to jeopardize the seeding by this match and let the wild card go through more rigorous process to win a draw with the top seed is only logical and fair.

          One can go through all the pain of finding MBTN and reading it but if prejudice and misconceptions are there only Vipareet gyan will result.

          Whereas karna’s devotion is commendable he also had many other qualities but it doesn’t mean Karna’s devotion was far more meritorious than anyone else’s. In MBTN concept of Taratamya or gradation clearly delineates the capacity of Jeeva to exhibit anything,

          When one looks through this prism the real measure of these expressions are revealed. Likewise just imagine if Karna had ignored his father later when everyone would learn about his family background wouldn’t that be more awkward for him !!! So acknowledging his father was the best thing he could have done.!!!

          Like

    8. On reading the translation in Mahabharta tatparnirnay that Parshuramji told Karna that You shall defeat all
      whom you fight without competion. In that translation on internet it shows that Bhima respected Parshurams
      boon and purposely lost to Karna after defeating him 21 times. Hence the translation clearly shows that Karna was not jealous of Bhima.

      The great Sri Raghvendra Tirtha did Shri Madhavacharyas summary and noted essential aspects of each chapter of Mahabharata Tatparnirnaya.
      The twenty-seventh chapter is called “Karnavadhah” (the slaying of Karna), and is summarized in the following sloka.
      1. The twenty-seventh chapter is called “Karnavadhah” (the slaying of Karna), and is summarized in the following sloka.
      yatsamarthyabalena suryatanuje parthena yuddhe jite
      pascacchalyamavapya sarathivaram dharmatmajam sayakaih |
      sirna ngam krtavatyamum sibiragam partham ca mrtyorapat
      yah parthena hate’rkaje nrpanutah payatsa nah kesavah 27
      Arjuna defeated Karna in the battlefield
      by the strength of Lord Kesava’s grace;
      After this, Karna secured Salya as his good and efficient charioteer;
      With his arrows, Karna badly wounded the limbs of Dharmaraja
      who retreated to his tent;
      Lord Krsna saved Dharmaraja, and Arjuna also, from death;
      When Arjuna killed Karna, the Lord was praised by Dharmaraja
      for all He had done;
      may this Lord Kesava protect us.
      Here sri raghvendra teertha acknowledge that Arjuns earlier victories over karna were by Shri Krishnas grace. Even the final battle the Lord had to save Arjuna from Karna and in the end it’s the Lord who was praised by Yudhishthira. In their highly impressive milatary career Pandavas had killed many warriors but Sri Ragvendra teertha uses the words Krishnas grace with Karna not in below stanza
      salye dharmasutaddhate kurubale parthaih samaste hate
      bhimenanujasamyute vinihate duryodhane draunina |
      suptanam nidhane krte nisi tato muktva vidherastratah
      parthan rajyamitamsca tatsutasutam yo’patsa no’vyaddharih 28
      When Salya was slain by Dharmaraja; ( see the words Krishnas grace are not associated with Yudhishthira killing Shalya Hence its clear that according to Sri Raghavendra Tirtha maharaj Karna was equal to Arjuna. Karna was defeated Earlier by Arjuna but by Krishnas grace. Since he was defeated he was not invincible ie as because of any boon or any kavach. Since Krishnas grace was associated with his defeat hence he was equal to Arjuna. To defeat your equals only external help both on human or divine level is required.

      Like

      • Mr. XYZ you have misunderstood statement

        After getting beaten by karna yudhishthira told arjuna to give away gandiva. Arjuna was honour bound to kill Yudhishthira becoz he had taken pledge to kill any one who insults him that way. Sri Krishna intervened and said that insulting a man is as good as killing him. Arjuna did that. Hence Yudhishthira was saved. Then Arjuna said I insulted my big brother. I should commit suicide. Sri Krishna said that praising one self is equal to commuting suicide. Arjuna did that hence both were saved from certain death.

        Like

    9. •His repentance of not having Drona’s tutorship was well compensated by PARSHURAM [ Drona ‘s guru ] that made him equal to Drona himself [ is it not good fortune ]
      Ans : Dhrona was not cursed by his guru as Karan was.Hence poor fortune

      •His skills were acknowledged and was parised everywhere [ is it not good fortune ]
      Ans : Not true.Since his skills and knowledge was not praised , he was under constant challange to proof superiority over Arjun
      •He acquired ANother half of ANGA rajya from JARASANDHA [ is it not good fortune ]
      Ans : Acquiring proved superiority.Its not Just fortune came on its own.He won.

      •EVEN when PAndavs were langusihing in forests , HE always had a Kingdom of his own and an emperor as a freind [ is it not good fortune ]
      Ans : Well before Pandavs went to forests and leaving anguish life , Karana was constant under anguish of not knowing his true identity.Who his parents are.( poor fortune )
      •He had the protection of highest KInd [ KAVACH and KUndal] is it not good fortune .
      Ans : Objective of kavacha was to protect his childhood death as his parents refused to nurture him.
      •His father SURYA always spoke to him in the times of distress [ Is it not good fortune ]
      Ans: His father SURYA never spoke to him till Krishan at the time of War told karana about it.
      •He was recognised by the whole world as a potential rival to ARJUN by whole world [ takshak’s son chose him to take revenge ] is it not good fortune . [ getting support of enemies enemy ].
      Ans : Takshak a son took Karana side ,but the trick chosen by Krishana to save Arjun reflects Arjun fortune not the Karana.
      •He was even offered a chance to Rule over his Rival ARJUN by KRISHNA [ is it not a good fortune ]
      Ans : Krishan was aware that chance will be declined by Karan.Lord purpospully offered in such a situation that Karan will never accept.Objective was just to Judge wat goes inside his heart and mind which can weaken him.
      •Except for the sanskara of SUTA all his life he led a life akin to a glorified KSHATRIYA .[ is it not a good fortune ]
      Ans : Glorified KSHATRYA life was provided by negative mind Durodhayan.Hence poor fortune.

      PLEASE CORRECT YOUR FUNDAMENTAL THEN SPEAK.

      Like

      • Dude are you asking Guruji to correct his FUNDAMENTALS….HAHAHAHHA

        Dude u need to correct yours!

        Like

      • PLEASE CORRECT YOUR FUNDAMENTAL THEN SPEAK.
        Looks like a statement made in haste and before gauging whom it is being addressed to. Disappointing and uncalled for.

        More over the objection raised doesn’t seems to be based on the grounds of appropriate knowledge, conviction or with a motive to gain insights or reach the truth.

        If the aim was to grasp the correct fundamentals or corroborate facts from elsewhere then a reference from a source deemed appropriate should have been provided.

        The facts provided here are from Sri Madhvacharya’s MBTN and have been provided for after a thorough study.

        Many of points raised here seem redundant and have been addressed before hand in exhaustive debates and articles kindly look around.

        Dhrona was not cursed by his guru as Karan was.Hence poor fortune

        The curses were in fact a blessing in disguise. In hind sight what can be the punishment for attempting to fool Hari the Sarvottamma one who is without a beginning or an end, one who knows everything and is omnipresent. Isn’t it his magnanimity that he kept on providing a stupid boy opportunities and blessings who thought he could fool GOD and trick him to acquire the Bramhaastra. Just imagine being in presence of Hari and all this foolish boy could think of was revenge and acquisition.

        Not true.Since his skills and knowledge was not praised , he was under constant challange to proof superiority over Arjun

        He took upon himself to prove this. Arjun never went ahead and asked for it. Even after knowing Arjun was his YOUNGER brother he was hell bent on getting his way for ego.

        Acquiring proved superiority.Its not Just fortune came on its own.He won.

        Birds of feather flock together chor chor mausere bhai. No wonder both Jarasandh and Karna started a Mutual admiration club while Duryodhana Shakuni were on the driving seat of the bandwagon. These guys kept on rejecting any proposals to associate with Satvik people making all sort of excuses.

        Well before Pandavs went to forests and leaving anguish life , Karana was constant under anguish of not knowing his true identity.Who his parents are.( poor fortune )

        Karna lived in Palaces with Princes had loving foster parents who were very well off. Pandavas lived in ashrams etc without a father.

        Objective of kavacha was to protect his childhood death as his parents refused to nurture him.

        This point is better illustrated in this blog kindly refer appropriate section.


        •His father SURYA always spoke to him in the times of distress [ Is it not good fortune ]
        Ans: His father SURYA never spoke to him till Krishan at the time of War told karana about it.

        Kindly quote your reference. The facts provided here are irrefutable to many as they emanate from far more credible source than others.

        •He was recognised by the whole world as a potential rival to ARJUN by whole world [ takshak’s son chose him to take revenge ] is it not good fortune . [ getting support of enemies enemy ].
        Ans : Takshak a son took Karana side ,but the trick chosen by Krishana to save Arjun reflects Arjun fortune not the Karana.

        Kindly elaborate.

        Krishan was aware that chance will be declined by Karan.Lord purpospully offered in such a situation that Karan will never accept.Objective was just to Judge wat goes inside his heart and mind which can weaken him.

        Laughable and blasphemous as integrity of GOD is being questioned here.

        Glorified KSHATRYA life was provided by negative mind Durodhayan.Hence poor fortune.

        Not very clear.

        Like

        • Mr. Anon
          Mr. Praveens statement
          o Krishan was aware that chance will be declined by Karan.Lord purpospully offered in such a situation that Karan will never accept.Objective was just to Judge wat goes inside his heart and mind which can weaken him.
          Laughable and blasphemous as integrity of GOD is being questioned here.
          I will answer this statement.
          In Summary of debate karna arjuna – 2 let me quote mr. chiraans answer.
          chiraan
          17/04/2010 at 22:20
          Krishna offered entire Kingdom to Duryodhan and only five villages under Hastinapur to PAndavaas . Krishna offered Rulership over Pandavas temporarily . [ DID KRishna really mean it ? ] WAS Duryodhan not evil ?
          The offer was to bring out ultimate evil in Duryodhan that not a needles tip space would be provided . This statement was a response to Krsihna’s offer , this was intent of Duryodhan with offer or without it ,which world would not have known to the world unless Krishna had offered the sandhi .
          Kripanashcha vittam , durjanasya manoratham devo na janati kutah manushya :
          Karna’s offer is also on same parlance .Its intent is to bring out the real self of each character .
          Here Mr. Chiraan makes it very clear that Sri Krishnas offer to Karna was not a genuine one

          Like

        • Niraj

          The word “judge” in the above quoted sentence makes all the difference it imposes constraints and limitations on what you understand Sri Krishna to be, for unenlightened, unintelligent and those who do not approach sacred scriptures to learn and understand the greatness of Hari but to create unnecessary claims to scholarship and wisdom end up getting vipareet gyan. Persistence to this approach would ultimately end up in securing a one way ticket to Hell.

          The author of the sentence in the above context by the use of “judge” implies that Shri Krishna wanted to find out something that he didnt already know for which he used a clever ruse to bring out this knowledge by making a dummy offer and exploit a righteous persons handicap.

          If I am not wrong Acharya meant that Shri Krishna wanted to illustrate and bring out the true evil face of Duryodhana and for what so that all Sajjans would not hesitate to act against evil. Pandavs were Devtas incarnate they were very affectionate and kind and at times even exhibited a sense of empathy towards there cousins (who were treacherous minions of Kali) They dont like quarrels egoistic battles etc they would even have settled for 5 villages.

          Moreover your the quote used by you “Kripanashcha vittam , durjanasya manoratham devo na janati kutah manushya” is grossly inappropriate in THIS CONTEXT it shows you still sympathize with the faulty interpretations. And this quote can never ever apply to Sri Krishna. If you would kindly look around the blog and educate yourself with basics of Tatvavaada the folly and gross misunderstandings on your part for using this sentence in context of NARAYANA would be self evident

          Hari Sarvottamma Vayu Jivottamma !!!

          Hare Srinivasa

          Like

      • respected guruji pranama
        pravinji agar aap jo kah rahe hai agar uska koi fundamental source hai apke paas to batiye. varna fizul mai app apna aur hum logo ka time kiko kothi kar hai .phele bhi kitne baar apki is topic ke bare mai debate ho chuki hai har baar apne mu ku khai hai fir bhi apni taang uper rake ho .dekiye mai apko ek cheez samjata ho ,hari sarvootma hai yeh to aap mante hai ki nahi,agr koi bhi insaan dhram ke viroodh jayega (duryodhan),aur us insaan ka sath dene wale log(karna)ko app bhot bhari insaan manenge to yeh to ekdum galat baat hui na sirji.iske liye sirji pehle apna fundamental sudhariye fir guruji ke funamental ki baat kijeye.
        humble pranama

        Like

      • Karna had tried to cheat Parashuram devaru hence was cursed. One cannot cheat Hari.Similar episode of Putana trying to cheat Lord Sri Krishna by giving milk,lost her life.
        Karna was a pataki as he had associated with dusta people and hence was engulfed with pappa.
        He had avoided association with Hari Bhakta and had dwesha against Arjuna hence was enemy of Vaishnawa.When Arjuna had blessings from Lord Sri Krishna and Bheemasena devaru then where is the question of parajaya.

        Pramod.

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        • Respected Acharya Sastang Pranams,

          I would like to clarify my self, few months back i had written,I was take back…..
          The Ascharya was because,How can a person say he is devoted To Narayana and support Karna.
          Acceptance of Lord Naryana should he whole hearted without slightest doubt and that can be only done when one reads Sri Anandateerthas Sarvamoola Granthas.

          Thanks
          Pramod.

          Like

      • Praveen Anand Nagesham said:

        Hello Mr Chiraan,

        Sincere greetings! Your blog has attained great grace of Lord Hari so some miracles are happening. I did not post this comment. Seems that some unknown friend of mine is trying to give sensational online coverage to me. I have no intention to debate on this subject as you are right on your side and I am also reasonable in my opinion.

        Thanks
        Praveen

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        • @ Praveen ji

          My first impression was that earlier post was not yours. You have mentioned that you believe in Hari Sarvottamma tatva. Moreover the impostor lacks you style (your posts are seldom so short of words and examples!!). You hold your ground but are not disrespectful towards Acharya.

          Your debates have elicited great responses here with enjoyable insights and further understanding of Tatvavaada. If I am not wrong Acharya has acknowledged this.

          regards.

          Like

        • Your debates were very healthy and we all enjoyed it as it gave us opportunity to analyse more and more the socio geographical aspects of MAhabharat era … Reasonable you definitely were .[ VADA JALPA are always encouraged by shastra its vitanda that we discourage ]… KARNA is character which deludes …. why ?

          because our own [ means every humans’ behaviour ] is different that means his reaction to situation is in three varied ways
          1. before dawn of knowledge
          2, after dawn of knowledge
          3. after dawn of vairagya

          in between step 1 and 2 there are infinite variations … similarly between 2 and 3 too there are infinite variations ..

          when attachments exists the reactions are different …
          let me give example …
          RAVANA went into deep penace for atmalinga SHIVA appears and tells RAVANA to ask boon
          BUT after seeing PARVATI by the side of SHIVA he was mesmerised by her beauty and asks her as a boon
          SHIVA GRANTS IT and asks PARVATI to go along with RAVANA !!!!! PARVATI obeys

          now look at this scenario … in agyana one may feel … DONATING ONE’s wife for the sake of word is right ?
          is this conclusion right
          after dawn of half knowledge [ if you are ADVAITI ] the conclusion may be
          OKAY there is no point in thinking my wife his wife …. everything is mithya … SHIVA is realised ….. RAVANA is still in maya

          conclusion 2 . EVERYTHING is leela . its just shivaleela …
          conclusion 3 .. SHUD ONE abide by husbands’ words [ as pativrata ] and go after parpurush as pati agnya ?
          conclusion 4 .. SHIVA is bhola baba … he grants anything everything [ undermining SHIVA’s intelligence ] bum bum bhole
          conclusion 5. SHIVA is param bairagi ,.. he had no moha for sansaara …
          conclusion 6 . SHIVA was more concerned about his vachan than his wife [ all along women has to suffer even if she is SHIVA’s wife why shud women bear the burnt always … shiva was not good husband ][ vipareet gyana ]

          now right knowledge
          SHIVA is all knowing and as RAVANa was not eligible for the atmalinga he deluded him by accompanying with PARVATI and also igniting kama in RAVANA ..
          DHARM says one shud not emulate PURANA purush [ figures and acts of purana ] like harishchandra selling his wife .. PANDAVAS betting their spouse ..RAAMA going to vanvasa etc

          After VAIRAGYA
          SHIVA is perfect BHAGAVAT .. HE knows VASUDEV is JAGADRAKSHAK .. so he allows PARVATI to follow RAVANA …
          After TATVAVADA gyana
          PARVATI devi is no ordinary women [ SHe is BUDDHI Adhipati ] RAVANA’s buddhi is also under her control she can make RAVANA think as per her wish … so she accepts to follow RAVANA under one condition that he shud not look BACK ..
          and NARADA on behest of other devatas , delude RAVANA into looking BACK …

          so analysis varies with state of mind … and amount of knowledge ..

          Like

          • With KARNA too such varied conclusion [ reasonable according to state of mind ] exist … those who think with their heart would find a friend or an alter ego in KARNA ……. much like character of Kamal Hassan in SAGAR , these people rejoice/sulk in the failures and disabilities [ mere saat hi aisa kyun hota mrs dsouza ] .. all the while they fail to understand their karma and present karma [ read actions ] which are faulty … yet they blame HARI for their failures ,,feel jealous [ internally ] about other’s success and attribute it good fortune and sympathisers say [ GOD ne tumhare saath bahut nainsafi kiya ] .. some evil ignites latent hate and jealousy and coupled with ego [ what if fortune deludes me , I shall fight my own destiny with this new found borrowed opportunity of villain …
            siding with villain is more out of sulk , despair at misfortune … and partial hate towards GOD and his fortunate devotees …

            BUT think with heart … you sympathise ..yes man GUY had everything only misfortune took the toll …. [ as if there is no role of karma GOD and destiny ]
            BUt think with Knowledge .. you will find yes there is KARMIC punishment being meted out …

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        • Dear Sir

          A very apt illustration. Since for people not given to strict austerities and conscious sadhana light comes and goes meaning we sometimes show wisdom and at others make a complete fool of ourselves. This discussion of Karna very much helps us to understand this transition process and encourages to work steadily towards acquiring and sustaining knowledge first and then attaining vairagya.

          As a quick test whenever we find ourselves sympathizing with Karna like situations or see ourselves as Kamal Hassan from Sagar even for a brief moment it should raise a red flag prompting us to get hold of this weakness and get rid of it as quickly as possible. Its a only a shortcut towards Kali prerna a one way ticket to hell.

          Sincere Pranaams
          Hare Srinivasa.

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    Dear Readers , If you are asking a query , Kindly do not forget to worship SRIMAN NARAYANA and HANUMANJI and then write a number within 1800 followed by single digit number [ within 1-8 ] ,kindly Give time and current Place where you are asking query from ! , followed by number of virtual beetle leaves ,nuts and fruits you would like to give astrologer , and clear place ,time and date of birth . [take your hands off keyboard ] TOUCH a BODY part and kindly mention which part of the body Your hand is touching [ sprishtanga ] .... state your problem clearly , let us know what is it that your are looking for without ambiguity ! start and end with salutation to HARI ! If above procedure is not adhered to ,then no answers will be given !

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