Tatva Sanshay Nivaran

Never before told truths about astrology ! Theory of KARMA through Madhwa Tattvavada

Tatva Sanshay Nivaran

This page is exclusively for the discussion of doubts over Dvaita siddhanta and Vedic phrases . Readers are encouraged to discuss in depth the tenets of Dvaita philosophy .

Comments on: "Tatva Sanshay Nivaran" (2,181)

narayana18 said:

May 14, 2013 at 12:30

Dear sir,

Can you please give an example that distinguishes Swatantra kartrutva from Aswatantra kartrutva? What role does jiva swabhava play here?

Many thanks.
- chiraan said:
  
  May 27, 2013 at 21:04
  
  kindly elaborate the question …for better discussion
  - narayana18 said:
    
    May 30, 2013 at 09:16
    
    Dear sir,
    Many thanks for your interest in my question. As per my understanding of Madhwa philosophy, a jiva does not have svatantra kartrutva; only Shri Hari has it. All jivas are paratantra and even the prerana for doing any work in a jiva is also done by Shri Hari. So, how do the vidhi nishedhas mentioned in the scriptures apply directly to the jiva? If Shri Hari does not give prerana for some work, then the jiva cannot do it on its own. I don’t know whether the jiva svabhava has any role to play here.
    Please treat any mistakes in my understanding as innocent ones and kindly guide.
    Namaskaras.
    - chiraan said:
      
      June 7, 2013 at 18:53
      
      while first part of your post is very correct .. JEEVA has gyana and iccha which is natural to it .. it is its attribute .. LORD inspires that too .. now when gyana is available , to desire or not to do DHARMA is undr the perview of JEEVA kartrutva .. ..WHILE jeeva shud do prayatna is dictum .. the failure to do so comes as OBSTRUCTION from DAITYA influences in teh form of tandra alasya etc .. WHEN will jeeva overcome that TANDRA alasya when it ahs steadfast KNOWLEDGE aht it shud prayatna even fi tandra alasya act upon it .. WHEN JEEVA does not do anything it means it ahs fallen prey to ALASYA ie its KNOWLEDGE is not steadfast ie DHRUDHA .. so DHRUDA gyana always makes one DO right THINGS .. and till one gains DHRUDHA gyana ,, not doing is its karma .. and it suffers ..
      - narayana18 said:
        
        June 7, 2013 at 23:22
        
        Dear Chiraan Ji,
        Many thanks for the clarification. So when Shri Madhwacharya says “Naham Karta, Hari Karta…”, can we infer the following regarding Svatantra and Asvatantra kartrutva?-
        
        The power to desire is given by God to all the jivas through prerana shakti. Without this, the jiva cannot desire anything. God’s role ends here. Now, what a jiva desires and performs actions is result of Asvatantra kartrutva. It is for this Asvatantra kartrutva that the vidhi nishedas mentioned in the vedas/upanishads apply to. So, when we criticize a person when he does something wrong (not accepted by the Shastras), we are actually criticizing the outcome of exercising asvatantra kartrutva where God does not play any role.
        
        If we now expand this to rajasik and tamasic souls, can we conclude that because of samshaya jnana and vipareeta jnana respectively, they desire and perform deeds in accordance with their jnana and ultimately end up in nitya samsara and andha tamas respectively? Can we also say that what satvikas perceive as ‘intense suffering’ for andha tamas is perceived as very natural by the tamasiks as their svarupa being dukha svarupa actually craves for andha tamas, similar is the craving for a world of intense confusion by rajasik souls?
        
        Please excuse any mistakes as innocent ones and kindly guide.
        Namaskaras.
        
        chiraan said:
        
        June 14, 2013 at 04:16
        
        at no stage jeeva takes over its only GOD allows JEEVAS iccha to be come reality [ even that LORD himslef does and gives fruits ]

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Never before told truths about astrology ! Theory of KARMA through Madhwa Tattvavada