• When eighth lord is in lagna , the native is Vishnu drohi.
• When tenth lord is in eighth native engages in devaninda
• When eighth lord is in eigth, native is anyathavadi[Vitand]
• When eigth lord is in ninth one is nastik[atheist],pashandi
• When saturn and rahu are in eigth one indulges in Himsa [ violence]
Vishnu took avatara as “budhdha” to delude many ‘tripurasuras’ .Some of these were reborn as sons of jin and came to be known as Jains.
Jains refute violence .
They believe in Ahimsa.
People believing in Vedas carry out yagnya .In yagnya Pashu himsa [animal sacrifice ] is common.. Jains say this is deplorable and hence it is violence and against dharma . Thus Vedas are not truth and not acceptable.
Pontiff Vadiraaj says “ Oh Jains , your ancestor Jin [The one who has propagated your philosophy] was born in Kaliyuga. Even before he was born Indra has done 100 ashvamedha yaga and became eligible for Indra post.
Bramha obtained the post of Bramha by performing ‘Rajsuya yaga’ Vashishtha ,prithuchakravarthi etc infinite people have done yagas .Were these all ancestors ,ignorant than kali born Jina .
Jains proclaim” Pashuhimsa in yagnya is noble to you because it was carried out by Indra and others , as they were born before Jina. Then we ask you your Sri Madhvacharya was born after Jina was born . Then why is Jain philosophy brought before birth of Madhacharya not acceptable?”
Jains” So just as jain philosophy though born before Madhvacharya is challenged by you , similarly yagnya and pashu himsa is also susceptible to challenge even if it is done prior to Jina”
Vadiraja” our Madhvacharya has taken birth in Kaliyuga at the same time he has accepted Vedas and the culture of earlier born Indra and others. But jina has taken birth in Kaliyuga and is challenging the prachin anushthana [ tradition] .
So the comparison doesn’t stand as it is the question of challenging tradition ancient and not person born ancient.
Just because Jina was born prior to so and so his challenge to tradition cannot be taken as acceptable because all born prior have not challenged tradition
Jain” Brahma ,Indra have done Yagnya , you proclaim,! How should we believe theat they have done so?”
Vadiraaj “ Bramha has done Rajsuya and the Place is famous by Name ‘ Prayaag’ even today . Indra is famous as ‘shatakratu’[one who has done 100 yagnyas] .Vashishtha is known as ‘paramyagnik’
Vishwamitra is known to have taken RAMA to save yagnya in ‘ramayana’
Horses were known to be left to circle earth for Ashwamedha and many who intercepted , battled out for supremacy ! All these are well known in history and famously recited traditionally for years .’
Thus the yagnyas were done priorly by Bramha Indra etc are without doubt acceptable
Jains:” Because Indra etc have done Yagnyas and Pashuhimsa is part and parcel of yagnya and thus it is acceptable is what you say ! But why cant we think these Bramha ,Indra etc were under illusion that they got results due to Yagnya , they might have as well got good fortunes without these rituals as well ? But it could be their illusion [ bhranthi ,bhrama] that they have acquired good results through Yagnya ! why this cannot be true ! How should we believe that results came only because of pashu himsa in Vedic rituals. They could have erred in doing so and we say they have and hence Animal sacrifice is wrong”
Vadiraaj:” If results were achieved by mere simple exercises like agricultural poghing etc or any other simple less exerting exercises or phenonmenon , then perhaps your statements that they might have been illusioned may sustain .
But A Vedic ritual involves lot of expenditure running into crores of rupees and also it requires lot of exertion with regards to fasting months together and resorting to penance and niyamas . were so many infinite people Bramha and Indra and others ‘fools [aviveki ]to have undergone so much labour and exertion. Why would so many follow to [illusive] exercise , if it were [bhrama] and waste crores of rupees and at the same time exertion of body . Will an entire civilization spend and toil for benefits that were illusive.
How have you understood them as subject to illusion ? illusion can be resorted to only when it is easily available or achievable , yagnyas like ashwamedha , rajasuya are not easy and effortless activies . so to make such activities one has to be quite knowledged. And sure!!”
Jains:” By killing[sacrificing] animals in rituals no result would have been possible , it is cold blooded murder and cruelty onto animal”
Vadiraj” Vedic mantras purify these animals and that becomes havissa for the deity and diety happy at it gives Swarga to the animal [soul]sacrificed and also to the performer goes to swarga”
King gives salary [money ] to the soldiers and asks them to fight a war , thses soldiers die . They achieve swarga and King by murdering[ violence to soldier] these soldiers on his behalf [giving money] is not known to have acquired sin. Even this King also goes to swarga for waging war.
Doctor undertake himsa [violence] while operating on patients they give misery to him and yet when he is cured he blesses Doctor . so Himsa is not always deplorable , at times it is acceptable in this world and it is seen”
Likewise before animal is subjected to violence and the it is laos given happiness in swarga ,which all by itself this animal could never have got !!”
Jains:” So you accept that there is some element of dukha to animal while sacrificing ! why cant we say that yagniks are adharmik because they are giving dukha to animal “
Vadiraj:” Jin advises ‘ Shravak ‘ vrat whereby ‘keshollunchan ‘ each strand of hair is uprooted ,this this not painful and dukhakar ‘ isn’t Jin who advices such a painful activity violent [himsak] . But he advises so that end result is happy .and just as you accept him yagniks are acceptable”
Jains:” Nobody has seen an animal sacrificed in ritual going to swarga , so swargaprapti for animal is false”
Vadiraj:” Jains believe in the words of Jin and resort to ‘panchamaldharan ‘[ ie withholding all the secretions of eyes ears ,mouth,genital and anus] expecting some happiness that is to come in future. This happiness has also been not seen by anyone till date . How come you don’t feel like animals [which incidentally also don’t clean mouth anus etc forever] and yet believe in this Jin for some expected happiness.”
Jains:” Okay then we cannot establish our future happiness and neither can you establish pashuhimasa as swargaprada , so are we not sailing in the same boat”
Vadiraaj :” Definitely not !! Vashishtha etc had the ability to go swarga and there they have witnessed the sacrificed animal enjoying in swarga ! By the experiences of these great Rishis we have come to know about happiness of sacrificed animals and also yagnyakarta.”
“ Jin is not known to be capable of foretelling the status of panchamaldhari’s , but vashishtha is famous as trikalgnyani “
Jin being so there is no proof either textual or fact!
To be contd ……………..