Surya | Chiraan
Sonu | Renu | Nilesh | Sundara | Neeraj
Surya wants to settle the issue of Translation and original Sanskrit before going to new points.
He cites ! Ganguly 2. M N Dutt 3. R C Dutt 4. Lal to say Karna stringed the Bow.
Chiraan says All these authors have different versions and they do not match with Sanskrit .
Hariprasad shows Where Ganguly mentions Radhaâ€™s son as failed for a shloka ,R C Dutt shows it Shishupala failed and MN Dutt shows it as Jarasandha Failed.
If Surya says they are all authentic How these are different translation for same shloka.
Surya says : â€œ Although he does not know Sanskrit , They are all correct translation s and Jury Hariprasad has no ability to read . There is no difference at all.â€� He challenges to show the verses in Sanskrit by Chiraan where Karna failed or made an attempt.
Chiraan shows the verse , Surya says it is fabricated.
Chiraan says it is same Shloka which is mentioned in his site where Ganguly translation resides .
Surya says : The Sanskrit version at site is not acceptable But Ganguly is acceptable.
If chiraan can show same sansjkrit for MN Dutt [ or if he proves M N Dutt translated from so and so Sanskrit ] he would accept.
Hariprasad jury shows , In saskrit there name Karna failed and M N Dutt by the side of English he skips the name KArna . this is dubious.
Surya claims its the publishers mistake , he has pulled one Sanskrit version and printed against Dutt translation.
Chiraan says , Dutt mentions that it is Kolkata edition Sanskrit from where he has derived,
Ganguly says he has derived from Neelkantha and resorted to Bengali rendition.
LAL also confirms this in his book. P N Mullick also criticizes the interpolation and incidentally this booki is co authored by MN Dutt .
So Ganguly shows error in writing Radhaâ€™s son. LAl and Dutt agree ganguly has interpolated . All these have derived from Bhasa . Who has written two plays [not translation] making a hero out of Duryodhan and Karna .
Such plays and its views cannot be accepted as authentic translation.
Surya feigns He cannot see any such proof provided by the links. Whereas all the observers find them a learning experiences.
Surya says he accepts Vyasa Sanskrit but is not ready to accept the shloka given by Chiraan as there is scope for misinterpretation .
Chiraan says same shlokas are available in all sites on the internet and no other version is available . and hence they have to be vyasa Sanskrit shlokas , and the word â€˜karnaâ€™ is clearly visible and hence there is no scope for misinterpretation for word â€˜karnaâ€™
Surya says , all the sites showing that shloka are corrupt versions of Sanskrit including his own sacred-texts site[ self contradictory]
Sundara exclaims Surya is wrong in his logic.
Renu feels Surya has clearly failed
Neelesh finds Suryaâ€™s logic utter nonsense . He admitrs he was fan of Karna after watching BRC teleserial , but now after learning karma debacles he has a change of mind .
He concludes Arjun is the best among the warriors and Karna is least evil among evils.
Neeraj finds it difficult to understand as why chiraan is quoting Vivekananda when he is not accepting his views .
Hariprasad unanimously says the logic of Surya is untenable .
Sonu puts forward following questions
1. After draupadi swayamvar Karna is defeated by Arjun
2 KArna was defeated in Gandharva episode . he was captivated [fled by some] abandoning Duryodhan and army . he was rescued by ARJUN .
3. In Viraat episode Arjun single handedly defeats Drona Bheeshma and Karna all put together and Karna flees from the battlefield .
4.When Drona demands gurudakshina to capture Drupada .Duryodhan along with Karna attack drupad but is defeated and rooted and driven away. Arjun wins Drupad.
Why did Karna lose here [ he had kavach kundal and boons everything] ? isnâ€™t these loses prove him to inferior.
Surya defends : 1.Karna was unprepared . he did not expect Bramhin to be serious adversary and hence lost .
2. In Gandharva episode , Karna was surprised [ if you are expecting Veerappan and suddenly if you find israelies what can you do] so because of element of surprise[ gandharva was superior] was there he lost . show similar incident for Arjun and I shall accept.
3. In viraat parva too He was not aware Arjun was before him hence he was unprepared.
Unpreparedness makes a warrior vulnerable . It is common and need not hamper Karnaâ€™s greatness .
Chiraan shows : Arjun similarly fought chitrarathj gandharva when he did not even have a bow and arrow and surprising attack in night , he hurled torch as astra and defeated gandharva.
Surya how can a gandharva be thought of formidable opponent . You mst show some serious incident [ Karna lost to Gandharva because gandharva was superior , yet when Arjun wins without weapons ,.it is just gandharva] â€“ self contradictory
Hariprasad jury points out ,
How come Bramhin [arjun in disguise ] was not taken seriously by Karna , he had just demnonstrated a superior skill which all kshatriys and Karna himself could not achieve [stringing of bow and hitting of fish] Having witnessed superior skill Karna should have been more prepared , and Karna led the attack .so did he lead without preparation .
Surya :â€™ Karna thought it was roadside bramhin who could have got a boon to win swayamvar but will perform miserable in duel.â€™[- self contradictory]
Chiraan says â€˜ if that were true why did all kshatriyas together fought one single bramhin.. jarasandha was most feared demon in those days , when he failed and Bramhin succeeded that means he was superior to jarasandha , Atleast Karna should have estimated that and he was prepared and defeated .
Hariprasad shows , in virat Drona declares â€˜ its arjun coming to fight and then Karna says even if it is Arjun he can vanquish â€œ these words show he was well prepared and he did see Arjun before him and knew it was Arjun. And he lost pathetically and fled the battlefield.
Surya , â€œ karna was expecting Virats , But he saw Arjun at the last moment and there was no time for preparation ,hence Karna was unprepared and hence lost but that does not show him to be less than Arjun.
Otherwise Why Yudhisthir will say â€˜ he lost sleep for 13 years thinking about Karna despite these setbacksâ€™
Chiraanâ€™ Yudhisthir has said same thing about Krishna too â€˜ he said how can we vanquish jarasandha , as Krishna himself could not vanquish hinm.â€™
Yudhisthir is known to worry unnecessarily , his worry does not make Karna a great. The by his worry even Krishna is susceptible to Jarasandha [ which is clearly unacceptable]
Hariprasad jury asks , In drupad war , it is clearly mentioned that Duryodhan and Karna and all brothers get into competition as to who will first get to Drupad. Here Karna is well prepared .Karna knows the opponents as Drupad and Panchalas , He knows their strength and he was fully equipped with kavach kundal and bow VIJAY everything.
The why did he lose ?
Surya says â€œ this was drona â€˜s war and Karna was not interested in winning it . He was less enthusiastic so he lost. We cannot consider this loss as mark of inferiority.â€�[ self contradictory] Karna lost even when prepared. And opponent surya accepts it.
Haripasad Jury says â€˜ Suryaâ€™s remarks defies elementary logic. â€˜
Karna lost to Drupad , Arjun thrice ,Gandharva ,Bheemasen Ghatotkach, Satyaki , Abhimanyu . He also failed to string the bow in Draupadi Swayamvar. So with so many failures Karna cannot be declared as Supreme Warrior .
Arjun is undoubtedly a superior warrior than Karna as he never lost a Battle until Krishna was there on the earth.