Hitherto Unknown Secrets !

Shanti Parva – Mahabharata

Yudhisthir Asks NARAD muni “ How did Karna get curses ?”

Narad muni says , this is Dev Rahasya but yet I would tell you . To decrease the Kshatriya population Sun got a brilliant son from Kunti . He was named KARNA . Karna learnt dhanurved from Acharya DRONA in hastinapur . But since childhood he was jealous of strength of BHEEM , astra vidya of ARJUN , Your intelligence and Nakul sahadevs’ vinay .He was also weary of freindship between Krishna and ARJUN . Seeing extreme support to Yudhisthir in the praja , he made friendship with Duryodhan during childhood .

After inspecting extreme brilliance of Arjun in dhanurvidya , he asked Acharya Drona in solitude that I want to learn Bramhastra its prayog and samhar .

Acharya Drona said , this vidya is only reserved for BRAMHINS and KSHATRIYAS WELL ESTABLISHED IN BRAMHACHARYA AND VEDAS .

Acharya SAID THIS taking into consideration Karna’s proximity to Duryodhan and rivalry with Arjun . After knowing this Karna went away from the place .

He reached MAHENDRA PARVAT . There he met Lord Parshuraam and introduced himself as Bramhin from Bhargav gotra .

Karna was practising astra vidya on mahendra parvat , one day he mistakenly killed a cow while practising . He was cursed by the Bramhin saying his wheel will be stuck in the ground and he will slain . Even after promising to give many cows , gold and land Bramhin could not be pacified . He did not take his curse back .

Dejected Karna went to his preceptor and served him with devotion and bramhacharya . Parshuram happy with his service taught him Bramhastra , its use and reversal . One day when Lord Parshuram was tired chose to rest in the lap of KARNA . There by a insect which feeds on flesh and blood , bit through karna’s thighs and a pool of blood disturbed the sleep of LORD Parshuraam . Parshuram cast his eyes on the insect immediately it turned into a Rakshasa , Lord asked who he was , he said he was A daitya from Satyayuga by name DANSH . One day he had tried to abduct the wife of BHRIGU muni . Rishi gave him curse to become an insect . On repeated lament and request Bhrigu said he would be relieved once eys are set on him by one of his progeny in his lineage . Parshuraam is of Bhargav gotra in the lineage of Bhrigu . Thus I am relieved of curse .

Looking at Karna Parshuram said , such a terrible pain could not be sustained by a bramhin , you seem to have kshatriya qualities , Karna fearing a terrible curse , immediately fell on the feet of Parshuram and said , I am from the caste SUTA and in greed of Bramhastra I lied to you . But as teacher is akin to a father , I introduced myself as the Bhargav gotra as you are from the lineage of Bhrigu and my Father .

Looking at the shivering KARNA Parshuraam smilingly addresed , ‘ fool , owing to the greed of astra you have cheated me , hence you will forget the astras and face defeat whenever you will fight with a sense of competition [ or whenever you fight a warrior you feel worthy to be vanquished]

There is no place in this ashram for liars and greedy . But I also bless you with a bow and chariot as long as you are fighting without the spirit of competition sitting in this chariot you will not be vanquished .

After saluting Parshuraam Karna returned to the Hastinapur and declared to Duryodhan that I have learnt Bramhastra!!!!!!

Notes :

  1. Initial dhanurvidya was taught to Karna by DRONA himslef , he was denied astras .
  2. Karna could win battles with others [ other than ARJUN BHEEM etc ] only because of Parshuraam’s boons , not by self strength or proficiency .
  3. Curses to karna were owing to his own misdeeds . He was not victim of circumstances . Gohatya cannot be a victimisation , lying to lord cannot be a circumstantial .
  4. Greed was predominant in karna
  5. jealousy was main factor in zeal for astras . Karna did not want to acquire astras for a just ruling or dharma yudha , he wanted them to excel Arjun . With or without astra karna had terrible ill feelings towards ARJUN ,

krishnarpanamastu

Comments on: "Story of Karna – as told by NARADA" (78)

  1. Dear Sir

    Just to add in another perspective:

    Kali is the abhimani diety for Kaalkoot Vish, Rudra devaru drank Kaalkoota (first carried and diluted a bit by Vayu devaru and then given to Rudra Devaru). This poison was so toxic and notorious causing Rudra Devaru a great deal of discomfort. Ultimately Rudra devaru took Akash Ganga in his Jatas, further Chandra devaru and even poisonous snakes as ornaments to alleviate this irritation.

    Just imagine how toxic Kali is even a param Vaishnav a param Tapasvai and very auspicious Rudra Devaru had to undergo such an ordeal to digest it. Now, In Taratamya Rudra devaru comes before Surya Devaru.

    This same Kali towards the end of Dwapara manifested in Duryodhana. Duryodhana embodies all mischief perversions and toxicity associated with Kaalkoota itself. He would poison everyone and everything near him. Now this Duryodhana also poisoned Bheemasena Devaru but even as a child Bheemasena Devaru easily digested the poison and emerged unscratched. At every moment this Duryodhana was always indulged in mischief and Hari Dwesha he poisoned his brothers his friends and who not with his ideologies and Vipreet Gyana.

    I do not see How could someone withstand such notoriety and toxicity which Duryodhana exhibited its 1000 times meritorious to shun him no matter what ever you owe Duryodhana than to stand by his illogical, obstinate and vengeful antics. He even wanted to disrespect his own Sister in law in his court Draupadi Devi who embodies the Vedic virtues and Knowledge…!!! Siding and supporting such heretic behavior in name of Dharma is not a sign of wisdom. A wise person like Bheemsena Devaru only cares for Bhagvatha Dharma the Sookshma Dharma. It’s no use to go around in circles like a corrupt Advocate who would swear by the written law trying to find loop holes around it to justify his stupidity and idiotic ego.

    Now how can we say Karna who was always enticed and beguiled by Duryodhana be better than Arjuna or any Pandava. By Sanskara also he was not in the same league as the Pandavas. At best we can attribute all that was good and virtuous to Surya Devaru in Karna and all other misfortunes to the Demon who was with Surya Devaru in Karna.

    Example: Even in our practical lives we come across many people. If you go to a bad persons house no matter how rich he would offer you water and refreshments in the Utensils which are used for Tamsic purposes even his servants would not take care of any Shuchi etc and would be stupid like him. On the other hand the even the leftovers of a poor satvik Brahmin would be like Naivadya due to his conduct and life style which would always have Hari Sannidhi. Now just imagine how it would be to live near Duryodhana though it was Dwapara and Kali was still not in his full bloom unlike Kaliyuga but still it would be such an tiresome irritating ordeal and misfortune to bear his witness.

    Sincere Pranaams
    Hare Srinivasa.

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    • Praveen Anand Nagesham said:

      “Now this Duryodhana also poisoned Bheemasena Devaru but even as a child Bheemasena Devaru easily digested the poison and emerged unscratched. At every moment this Duryodhana was always indulged in mischief and Hari Dwesha he poisoned his brothers his friends and who not with his ideologies and Vipreet Gyana. ”

      Bhimsena did not digest poison he was rendered deeply unconscious and thrown into the Ganga. While floating deep in the waters, the nagas residing in the river bit him. The poison of the nagas countered the poison present in Bhima’s body. So he came back to his senses. Lord Rudra is the greatest of all tapasvis in this world. For the sake of good to all world he swallowed the Kala Kuta poison, yet that poison was so mighty that Rudra deva had to bear it in his throat, His throat turned blue and he was called Nilkantha (One with a blue throat) No one can digest kalkuta poison except Lord Shiva the great teacher of the world and the greatest of Vaishnavas. Without his blessings no one get Hari bhakti. He is the guru, he shows the path towards supreme God Hari.

      Regards
      Praveen

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  2. Shri Chiranji


    This was unworthy behaviour ……. SO kavach was withdrawn , having KAVACH on such a person was insult to KAVACH itself …a divine one ………… thsi was 1000th kavach 999 were broken by NAR NARAYANA …….1000th would also have been broken … but preservation of IT was necessary to honour boon given ………. so it was tactically begged back ….. even VAMAN begged …. nothing wrong in begging by a bramhin ……………… but He was compensated as well with a better one … which was actually useful to KARNA .. with KAVACH He could not kill anyone ,,,,,,, with SHAKTI He could atleast KIll Ghatotkach else Ghatotkach would have killed HIM ..”

    Blog post on Karna was started by your team on basis of assumption that Karna was an asura in previous birth. Kindly tell all online readers about the scripture in which this story has been given. Which Purana is displaying this story and in which chapter can we find this story? Because Mahabharata doesn’t mention it, we do not find this description neither in KM Ganguly’s version in that of Gita Press Gorakhpur. Kindly tell us the name of that book in which karna was assumed to be an asura with 1000 shields.

    Regards
    Praveen

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  3. In response to Shri Chiraan’s statement

    “EVEn if he had kavach and kundal he would have died and PANDAVAS would have won he war much like RAJSUYA ……because KRISHNA is there on their side …” if we assume that Karna’s kavach and kundal was futile then why did Indra come to take them.? Why would Indra beg in front of a human being for a thing that has no use and grant him a boon. That kawach and kundal had amrita for which once devas had been at war with asuras their cousins. And after drinking the same amrita devas become powerful and immortal. For the same amrita Lord Vishnu took Mohini avatar and beguiled asuras for sake of good. Then how can that kawach made of amrita prove futile?

    Regards

    Praveen Anand Nagesham

    http://www.contentcreations11.webs.com

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    • how can a kavach have amrita …. this seems farfetched imagination …..even if we assume amrita is there in it … can anybody become immortal by keeping amrita in his pocket ……… so logic of amrita is untenable ……..

      Third this kavach was there when BHEEMSEN snatched kingdom from KARNA during RAAJSUYA …… This kavach was there when KARNA lost during DRAUPADI swayamvar …. THis KAVACH was there when KARNA fled from GANDHARVA army …….. this kavach was there when KARNA again fell in virat war …. this kavach was there when karna fled DRUPAD war ……… if he could not die then why did he fled away …… what makes one run away from enemy ,.,… fear of death …….. fear of imprisonment …. if KARNA was so sure that He would not die with kavach ON , then He would have fougth forever the battle in these circumstances till he was successful [ as you yourselves admired HE always gave a fight even after failures , so what is the necessity to run away from battle …. you cannot die ,,,,, you are infinitely brave [ perhaps more than ARJUn !!!! pun indicated ] so why not fight till death why run away ? ] that means He ran away owing to not bearing pain ……… fear of death ……..fear of imprisonment…….. you have KAVACH and yet you run away that means you are timid ………… what else to prove HE is inferior ]

      This was unworthy behaviour ……. SO kavach was withdrawn , having KAVACH on such a person was insult to KAVACH itself …a divine one ………… thsi was 1000th kavach 999 were broken by NAR NARAYANA …….1000th would also have been broken … but preservation of IT was necessary to honour boon given ………. so it was tactically begged back ….. even VAMAN begged …. nothing wrong in begging by a bramhin ……………… but He was compensated as well with a better one … which was actually useful to KARNA .. with KAVACH He could not kill anyone ,,,,,,, with SHAKTI He could atleast KIll Ghatotkach else Ghatotkach would have killed HIM ..

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      • Praveen Anand Nagesham said:

        Shri Chiranji,

        It is an interesting thing that in M.B giving donating of Kawach by karna has been mentioned three times. One in Adi Parva, one in Aranya Parva and One in Uddoga Parva. The defeat of Karna which you are mentioned at the hands of Arjuna took place when Arjuna was in disguise. I support you in the case when Arjuna defeated Karna and other Kauravas at Virat. I think this victory of Arjuna was more glorious than that at Kurukshetra because here he alone handled all Kauravas well and drove them away. As concerning Karna Arjuna Duel, It took place when Arjuna was disguised as a Brahmin. Karna had deep respect for Brahmins, he had also got two curses from Brahmins. For this reason he didn’t fight Arjun posed as a Brahmin whole heartedly. He withdrew from the duel applauding Arjuna’s skills believing him to be a brahmin. Karna believed brahma teja was invincible. So he withdrew from duel at the swayamvara but he did not run away from the swayamvara. If a person withdrews from a fight by applauding skills of his opponent and showing respect to him so what is wrong in that.?

        Why don’t you see the fury of Karna in the final battle. After his son Vrisha sena was killed Karna attacked Arjuna, Pandavas, Panchalas and Somakas. When arjuna used his divine missiles like Aindra and Agneyastras all Kauravas fled from the battle field. At that Karna did not run away, he repelled Arjuna’s Aindra and Agneyastras with Varunastra and Bhargava astra. He also baffled the brahmastra shot by Arjuna, he pierced Bhimasena with hundreds of arrows, destroyed many Panchalas and Chedis alone. Seeing this Bhimasena and Krishna warn Arjuna to fight more carefully as Karna was destroying the pandava Army. After death of Karna shalya comes to Duryodhana and says ” Never has a battle been fought as that it was seen today between Arjuna and Adhiratha’s son. Karna had powerfully assailed the two Krishna’s but fate is protecting the Pandavas” If karna was really incompetent the Gods, Nagas, Rishis and Danavas would not have come on the skies to witness his battle with Arjuna. Nor the devas would have pleaded to Brahma and Shiva to bless both Karna and Arjuna with victory as they were equal in prowess. Lord Brahma said that the two Krishna’s have ascended on the earth for sake of devas and welfare of entire world so they would win. Karna is a hero but as danavas are taking his side therefore Arjuna will win and Karna will attain glorious regions like Bhisma and Drona. If karna would have fled from the final battle I too would have called him a coward. But he didn’t run and he fought knowing very well that he is destined to die. Yet desiring to win glory by giving up life in battle he fought very well in the final battle and died like a Hero. All is well if the end is good. Karna’s end was good because he died like a hero and a Kshatriya warrior. Thats all!

        Regards
        Praveen

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        • Karna was an able warrior ……. a formidable opponent …….. there is no two thoughts about it ……….. but debate is who is supeior amongst t two ARJUN and KARNA ………..
          A
          In a war ……… win and success are not parameters for greater warrior ……because win and loss are in the hands of GOD …………. then what sets two warriors apart ……… its the bravery ……….. skill ………………. and fairness with which a warrior fights ……………

          bravery is tested by the ability of warrior in enduring pain and fighting war till death …………….. without leaving field ……….

          Karna flees everytime ………….. ARjun never fled battle field not even once .did he even step back …………
          Now Karna has boon 1 ………. karnakundal kavach ie no death ……. then why flee when you know that
          boon 2 ………………. as long as he rides chariot given by Parshurama no defeat …………….. then why flee when you are aware of it ?
          boon 3 ……………….as long as he weilds VIJAY No KShatriya can defeat him ………………… then why flee ?
          boon 4 —————- with shakti in hand HE is invincible .[ everybody shud die ]……………………………………………….. then why flee ?
          then he had bhargava astra ……….. nagastra of takshak’ wife ……………….

          There is fifth factor which makes him impossible to win warrior ………. none has pointed out that factor till date ………………….

          He fled because HE had doubt on these boons ………. neve carried them all together …….. used them sparingly ie if he came in chariot he left vijay …… if he carried shakti then he left both vijay and chariot ………….
          So when He had none vijay or chariot ….. he was beaten black and blue by even gandharvas and drupad ……….. even with Bramhin ARJUN disguise He had none so He realised HE was ill equipped and withdrew or fled to come back with better aid ………… the factor he did not feel bad in fleeing rather than risking his life makes him a timid warrior ………….

          whereas ARJUN always carried GANDIVA …………………

          even in last battle he flees 21 times while fighting BHEEMSEN ……… He is terrified so much that he forgets shakti and flees …………..
          while fighting ARJUN in last battle as well he flees on chariot of Ashwaththama ………..
          to keep Parshuraamas boon that holding vijay he should not get defeat ,,,,,,,,,,, standing on chariot he should not face defeat ……… having karna kundal kavach he should not be killed ,,,…….. to honour boons KRSIHNA orders KARNA to be killed unarmed ,…………….
          else Bheemsen had shown all boons were futile when it comes to Him ,…………………………

          Karnas’ competence did not lie in his abilities ,………. there is fifth factor ./// which made him a dangeous opponent to ARJUN …… it is this afctor that is praised anmd ARJUN is warned off time and again that with that factor oN karna could never have been won ………………………….

          hope Karna fans identify this factor ……..

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  4. SWASTIK said:

    Both chiraan and praveen words contradicts but i think praveen is right………

    There is an in incident that i heard from a scholar proving karnas greatness and it said

    “When Karna is going to die Arjuna was very happy that he defeated the warrior like Karna but
    lord krishna laughed at him and said to arjuna that u dont know the greatness of Daanvir karna
    so he made a get up for arjuna like a brahmin(by stopping time) and asked him to ask some alms to karna.Arjuna followed Lord Krishna words and did the same……

    Karna in return ask to brahmin in a polite manner “hey,brahman i m going to die what can i give u now”..Brahmin(Arjuna) requested to give some money or some jewellery in return…so Karna had a golden teeth he broke it (on the verge of death) and gave it to the brahmin,but the brahmin denied because the teeth can’t be used by a brahmin until it is washed…so Karna at that condition
    went to his chariot and and shoot a bow to the earth and the water came out so karna washed the teeth and gave it to brahmin..

    Hence after Arjuna knew the greatness of karna

    In previous life karna and arjuna were bali and sugriva

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    • the above incident is imaginary and does not have scriptural backing …. greatness is not established on hearsay ….

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    • Thanks Swastik,

      I’m glad to know that at least one person supported me in my views. I have also read about the post war incident that you’ve mentioned. I don’t know to how much extend it is true. Even if it is imaginary then also I have a strong point of proving greatness of Karna. Lord Krishna gave instructions of Bhagwat Gita to Arjuna. But before Arjuna, Bhishma and Karna were two persons who were following it. Their slogan “follow your dharma even if you get destroyed following it.” They didn’t have any personal life goal (personal life goal and ambition are different things) Karna knew the greatness of Lord Krishna and he also knew that Pandavas cannot be won as they were protected by Krishna. The best quality I like in Karna is that he never feels depressed even after a failure. He stands to fight once again. The Pandavas and Kauravas claimed kingdoms through legal inheritance. Karna lived like a common man in his early life but he acquired kingdom through his personal abilities. Duryodhana may have donated him a kingdom but he also defeated Jarasandh alone. He also did dig vijay like the Pandavas in the east, north, west and south and expanded the Kuru empire. Though cursed we cannot ignore his greatness. Even Lord Krishna and Bhisma did not ignore his greatness, then other persons are very ordinary how can they criticize him?

      Karna chose to fight for Kauravas and die to get rid of debts owing to Duryodhana. All great warriors fighting on side of Pandavas were bound with love for Pandavas. All great warriors fighting on side of Kauravas like Bhishma, Karna, Drona and Ashwatthama were bound to debts and duty towards Duryodhana. Its very easy to leave an evil person, but doing duty for an evil person while being good in oneself is not an ordinary thing. Take for example current day Indian system is afflicted with corruption at many places. Still there may be some good people in these places doing their job honestly under evil administrators.

      The greatest sign of Karna’s bravery is donating his armour knowing well that if he gave it he would definitely be killed. In history we find only three people who donated knowing that they would be at loss. Dadheechi a great sage gave his life and donated his bones to Indra so that he could kill Vritrasura with weapons created through those bones. Maharaj Bali the beloved devotee of Lord Vishnu donated his entire kingdom to Lord Vishnu (vaman) even after being told that he would become a pauper after doing donation. And finally the great Danveer Karna donated his armor made of amrita to Indra even after knowing that Indra had come to weaken him for sake of his son Arjuna. Some people are born unfortunate yet they acquire greatness through their virtuous actions, principals and will power. Karna is among those great persons. Being the son of Sun god no one in this universe can deprive him of fame and glory. His name will be remembered till the end of this world.

      Salutations to Great Lord Krishna who knows the greatness of Karna !

      Salutations to the Great Danveer Karna !

      Best Regards

      Praveen Anand Nagesham

      Senior Content Writer & Founder of Content Creations11

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      • karthik said:

        respected praveenji,

        the story of post war incident was portrayed in dana veera sura karna a film in telugu… which is in fact full of wrong incidents ..when i compared it with the textual sources.. also the written info reg the incident was there in wikipedia fro sometime till it was removed.. as regards to karna .. yes he was a person with some good traits but with several negative ones..

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      • Again a heap of misconceptions and twisted words ………
        quote”
        Even if it is imaginary then also I have a strong point of proving greatness of Karna. Lord Krishna gave instructions of Bhagwat Gita to Arjuna. But before Arjuna, Bhishma and Karna were two persons who were following it. Their slogan “follow your dharma even if you get destroyed following it.” They didn’t have any personal life goal ”

        This line suggests as if KARNA and Bheeshma did not require GEETA at all and they were living perfect life ………. this is wrong and selfassumed ……. Arjuna is hailed as more knowledgeable person and greater devotee , the fact that LORD chose to drive his chariot shows ………. when asked WHy KRISHNA you have chosen to drive a chariot of ARJUN …. KRISHNA says because HE has truly with heart made DHARMA [ YUDHSTHIR ] and [ GYAN BAHKTI VAIRAGYA ] [ BHEEMASEN ] as his elder brothers ……..
        those who live their lives with under the dharma and gyana , LORD himself drives their chariot of life , they do not have to look for what i should do next , SHould I do this or That , is that right or wrong …… everything is taken care of by KRISHNA …….. Those who do not care for the next meal and dedicate themselves to be ordered by gyana bhakti vairagya …….BHAGAVAAN VISHNU keeps moving behind them just to ensure that this devotee does not go hungry ………

        This type of grace niether KARNA nor BHESHMA had ……….so who’s better ?

        fault with author of post previous is He begins with a faulty note and then ends with blunderous statement ………” “follow your dharma even if you get destroyed following it.” I have never heard that those who follow DHARMA perish or get destroyed …….infact shastras says ” DHARMO RAKSHATI RAKSHTAH ” If one follows Dharma one gets protected ……..

        Blunder two ………….. They did not have personal goals ………..
        The only goal KARNA had was to defeat ARJUN …… otherwise He would not have taken a vrata saying HE would not refuse anyone who asks him dana till he kills ARJUN ……..and second time after repeated defeats HE takes oath not to wash his feet with his own hands till he vanquishes ARJUN …….. [ failure in taking oath .. ARJUN always completed his OATH ] .
        He had no intention of debt towards Duryodhan …… HAD HE any , He would have swallowed insult from BHEESHMA and particpated inwar under BHEEShMA ……… If he can shamelessly carry on after failures [ read as not getting depressed ] then why get depressed at BHEESMA’s words especially when it is known He was also his grandfather an elder He could have taken insult in his stride and carried on his duty of paying back debt of Duryodhan ………. instead HE deserts the dear friend and indebtedness in the most crucial hour …. [ what if duryodhan had died in those ten days , what about unpaid debt , would world have not laughed at KARNA for having left friend in need in war …….at that time perhaps these karna fans would have had another excuse HAD it been KARNA duryodhan would not have lost ]
        second IF he was indebted to DURYODHAN .. the only thing war required was to capture YUDHISTHIR …. and KARNA was capable of that ………. HE gives KUNTI a boon saying I would leave YUDHISTHIR but not ARJUN ……….. why ARJUN …….. it was his personal goal .. otherwise capture YUDHSITHIR and give to DURYIODHAN and finish war and debt ………… selfish man had no love duryodhan either nor any friendship ……….

        BLUNDER 3 -KARNA lived like a common man ……..
        KARNA always lived an affluent life ….. HE was adopted by sarathi ADHIRATH of EMPEROR DHRITARASHTRA …….. sarathi lived in palaces much like SANJAY and Vidur …….
        He was taught in early days by DRonacharya in gurukul other than royal one …….. BUT Drona refused to give him astra vidya especially Bramhastra …….. to learn Bramhastra He goes to PARSURAM and lies as BRAMHIN ………..
        SO gets best education …….in childhood and gets opportunity to gatecrash and showcase talent at best platform of the world ……..
        and then gets KINGDOM as a gift [ what a grace of LORD ] who says his life was pitiful …… He did not even know He was deserted by his mother , so a child lived in best psychological condition ………. socially materially where is deprivation ?
        on the other hand ….. ARJUN lived in jungles for major part of his childhood ……… father died at tender age …. diffciult upbringing …. hostile atmosphere at uncles place denial of rightful KINGDOM ……. what a contrast vis a vis KARNA ……….. yet they chose DHARMA and kRISHNA ………. KARNA chose DURYODHAN ………….

        who’s great ?

        Finally what does GEETA say …… there is nothing in this material world … all the debts and relations are but mere that of Body and not for soul …….. so one must always heed to KRISHNA the supreme ……….. what does KARNA do ………. even after KRISHNA himself says …. leave duryodhan and join pandavas ……… disregarding GOD , he chooses debts of body and not the duty of SOUL …… those who disregard LORD …what are they ? How can they be greater than ARJUN ?

        blunder of blunders ——-but doing duty for an evil person while being good in oneself is not an ordinary thing

        where is it written in law and dharma that one has to serve evil …….. and which dharma guarantees being good in the company of evil …… otherwise the words of bhagavat to be in satsanga … and satsanga alone being responsible for MOKSHA goes for a toss if we were to accept this blunderous statement …….
        and WHERE did KARNA remain good himself ……… calling Draupadi in unparliamentary language is maintaining good ?……. running away from battle is it good ? ………. lying before GOD …is good ? disrespecting mother’s Plea … is it good ? …..abandoning friend in war , dishonouring BHEESHMA ……. is it good ? …………. killing from behind own brother’s son [ abhimanyu ],is it good ? . …..fighting in night against rules and killing ghatotkach with a boon ? [ shakti indra’s shakti had that not been there auravas would have lost that very day ]………………………………. Disregarding GOD’s command is it good ?

        what is good that HE has remained and maintained while serving EVIL ……..?

        EVEn if he had kavach and kundal he would have died and PANDAVAS would have won he war much like RAJSUYA ……because KRISHNA is there on their side ……………….

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      • Yeah! I agree with you on the point of Karna’s donation to the two brahmins during his death hour. I’d seen that film “Danveer Soora Karna” in which Duryodhana was portrayed like a hero yanta maatha yanta maathaa………..:-) May be some scholars might have created this fictional incident to add more glory to Karna’s character. But he is among most renowned charity givers. And if he had not been cursed, can you imagine what would have been the end of Mahabharata story ?

        Regards

        Praveen Anand Nagesham

        http://www.contentcreations11.webs.com

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        • quote ”
          And if he had not been cursed, can you imagine what would have been the end of Mahabharata story ? ” unquote

          its like saying HAD DURYODHAN been not evil what would have happened ?

          the author of the fiction is BHASA a sanskrit poet who lived in 4000 years ago .he created two fictions one protraying KARNA as hero and second DURYODHAN as a hero …. In his era which was marked by complete rise of buddhism and charvaaka siddhanta and total annihilation of vedic life ……. both plays were superhit in the world ….
          later as vedic cultures picked up …. KARNA story remained popular and people rejected duryodhan ‘s heroics in play …….. it will not be folly to assume with few more misconceptions and fan following its resurrection is not far off …

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      • Pramod said:

        Respected Acharya Namsaksrs,

        I was taken back when Mr Praveen wrote Some scholar might have created this fictional…….
        Mr Praveen and Mr swastik are friends now as Mr swastik has same views as that of Praveen and supports this view.
        I now realise it is not by chance a person becomes devotee of Vishnu it needs lots and lots of janmantara puny to become lord Keshavas devotee.
        True devotees of sri Hari accept HIM completely.
        There are many great stalwarts who were born in advaita families and when they came across
        Sri Madhvacharyas prechings accepted wholeheartedly,showing true bhakti in Sri Hari and Madhva tatvas.
        Iam seeing this debate is going on for years,yet people are adamant and do not accept Hari Sarvottama tatvva.

        Thanks
        Pramod.

        Like

        • yes when one starts justifying evil …… even the fiction written seems a scholarly achievement ……………

          Karna represents perfectly the persons who twist dharma according to their convenience , who attribute their failures to others and time …. full of fear and jealousy and hankering after fame and success at any cost ……….not bearing others success and good qualities ……..

          Some great anamolies to be highlighted again is ………….. every action KArna did was to prove himself something or achieve something but not as dharma ……… when it really came for doing dharma HE escapes with lame excuses ……..

          He gave dana because by not doing his vrata would get bhanga and He would not be able to counter ARJUN …….. He did not do dana because HE was daanveer ……….. nowhere in mahabharata VEDAVYASA referes to KARNA as DAANVEER ……… even when greatness in giving dana comes it is BALI who is hailed as greatest …….

          now when INDRA came to ask for dana in bramhins disguise ,karna knew he was Indra …… Karma also had tasted the effects of curse of bramhins He could risk no more …. so out of fear He donates fear of curse , fear of losing vrata ………….. He does not donate with bhakti ………
          here HIs career was at stake so HE shows to have done dharma at the cost of LIFE ………

          But similaly when KUNTI the mother asks for dana of someone elses life …….. not anything of his ………… NOW clever KARNA knows no mother would ever curse his child … so he is safe …. and if he gives dana his career is over ……… so He chooses to bypass his daanveer avataar and says I would KILL ARJUN …. cry if you want to cry …..BUT I am bound by my duty to DURYODHAN ………. [ result loss of vrata Karna was cornered here , if he gives boon ARJUN is safe else also ARJUN is safe ]
          ‘if one were bound by duty then one shud have refused INDRA as well …….but fear of curse forced him ……….

          when it comes to getting some secret astras dharma of serving GURU NARAYANA is paramount even to extent of getting hurt …….. but when it comes to self goals …… even LORD’s word is not important but yes freimdship is more important [dharma of convenience ]

          when convenient He fights for jarasandha to aid duryodhan abduct his daughter ………. when not convenient in draupadi swayamvar HE says He does not wish to fight able bramhin[ that too after being defeated ]
          when convenient HE speaks of valor and when not convenient He runs away ………..

          so where is Dharma dana veer shoora ……..
          dana at convenience
          veera at convenience
          shoor he was not because even though equipped with deathlessness ………… he ran away several times owin to fear of pain unable to bear pain of hit of arrows ,,,
          he had limited knwoledge of astras because His none of the astras could kill Ghatotkach …. he ran out of astra knowledge and finally had to use his final trump card reserved for ARJUN ……. that means wiyhout that trump HE was no match for ghatotkach …. so how can he compete with arjun ,,.
          so he was neither daani because he had refuised dana …..
          nor was he veer becaus he ran away
          nor shoor because everyone defeated him abhimanyu ghatotkach satyaki drupad gandharva all chilli pillis defeated him ..

          Like

    • The above incident of Karna’s death is not in Mahabharata. But has been extrapolated by commentators.

      Secondly, If we keep the following comparisons with regards to dharma in mind, it will be evidently clear, why Karna is inferior:

      1. Obeying Lords Dictum: The words of the Lord are above everything. This was also evident in the Ashwatthama episode when Dharmaraj Yudhishthira lost that extra height he had of his chariot because of always following dharma, when he denied saying Ashwathama is dead on the orders of Shri Krishna. If Dharmaraja yudhishthira lost it, where would Karna stand for disobeying Shri Krishna to join Pandava Camp. This is dambh nothing else. i.e. Knowing that Shri Krishna is the Lord, but yet not realizing that siding adharma(Duryodhana) is not what the Lord likes. On the other hand, Arjuna on the advice of Shri Krishna picks up the weapons and follows his kartavya, keeping aside his loyalty, family, bonding etc claims aside. He did not try to superimpose his own intellect on the guidelines of the Lord, but tried to understand the duty perspective by asking for guidance. He clearly knew [being and aparoksha gyani] that his sarathi is none other than the owner of this creation, and his thumb size soul would stand nowhere to even one dust particle of the Lord’s feet.

      2. Obeying Mothers Orders: When Kuntidevi asked Pandavas to divide Draupadi devi amongst 5 brothers, none created a hue and cry. Followers of Dharma (and here we are talking about Pandavas) take orders of their parents at all costs. It is their realization that elders are the upasana murty of the Lord and must be worshipped and obeyed in the first place. Without this, no other dharma following can give results. On the other hand, Kuntidevi asks Karna to follow her advice, but he sides with evil, under the pretext of loyalty. Flouting dharma again.

      3. Lieing to the Guru: there is no incident of Arjuna lying to his Guru. True dharma followers infact, take their limitations in the stride and take it as a wish of the Lord in following it. To work towards it they follow dharma again and not deceit. Lie in kaliyuga in today’s date was not the same as Lie during that time. It was a heinous sin, still Karna escaped with minor punishments only.

      4. Let’s for the sake of debate ASSUME [ acharya has already clarified why he did so] that Karna did donate, follow loyalty etc etc.. Now the point is when one has flouted the basic dharma (1,2,3) on which the life stands, where do such small acts stand in giving results ? Can we safely say that one can transgress the Lord, Guru, Parents but give gold, jewellery etc and yet be able to please the Lord and get results ? all the acts of charity etc etc give results only when these are attributed the Lord within the receiver.

      By the arguements it seems that it is possible to please the Lord by the gold, jewellery, kavach etc.. even if one flouts dharma of 1,2,3 points above. This means in todays date when everyone is hell bent on earning black money, ill treat elders, shun the parents when they are old, make fun of the brahmins and religious practices, BUT if they give some part of that wealth as donation, they will reap rich dividends and that they are following dharma !!!…. It is ok to be with a ganster, aide him in commiting murders, extortion etc.. and then come to a jhompadpati throw a note kee gaddi to the poor and then pass lewd remarks on the respectable women in the society. And yet Lord Yama will be pleased with their actions and open the doors of heaven for such people, because they threw note kee Gadi. !!!

      Like

      • Good heavens! Again same excuses for proving Karna a villain. I’ve read these points before in some comments of your team. I wish to know in which purana the story of karna’s previous birth has been told?

        Like

      • So Mr. Pravin Can we say that It is ok for Karna to have ignored the dictums of the Lord, Mother and Guru and yet be qualified as a hero ahead of Arjuna who never did all this adharma ? It is apparent from the “Good heavens” that dharma is definitely not the factor in deciding hero or a villain, in your opinion. I am not sure how will you decide who is hero who is villain, because Karna could not prove it with astras either …. OR could he have done that in absence of dharma… is a matter to be thought about !!!

        Sympathy seems to be the only option left, as Acharya has clearly described how Karna was defeated in the wars by Pandavas.

        Let’s recoup the options by which Karna can be heroed here:

        1. Dharma – You dont agree with above and still feel “Good heavens” about it.
        2. Valour – Acharya has mentioned how he was defeated time and again with umpteen proofs
        3. Loyalty – This has also been refuted under Dharma and also in event when he told Kunti devi he will not kill anyone but Arjuna, whereas he should have sighted Yudhishthira instead of arjuna, if he was loyal to Duryodhana
        4. Astra Vidya – Lack of righteousness led him in the grave sooner than destined, as he forgot his astras at the last moment owing to the curse by the Guru.
        5. Divine Protection – Even with Kavach he ran away from the battlefield at times

        if it is looked seriously upon, Karna fails the acid test itself to qualify for the debate. Without clearing the civil services examination, how will Karna become IAS ? If you have the formula, please share.

        Like

  5. Ramayana and so many episodes keep talking about all the devtas getting thrashed by asuras like Ravana
    Tarakasura.etc and keep running to Shiva an Vishnu. That includes Vayu. In the tarakasur episode its Lord Shiva who came to the rescue not Vayu. Even during the asura Jalandharas slaying its Vishnu and Shiva who
    defeated him. Devtas got thrashed by Parvatis son Ganesha. That too includes Vayu
    Where was Vayu when Narakasura snatched the ear rings of his mother aditi ? Shri Chiraan are you claiming that you have access to the very same Mahabharata which was wrote by Muni Vyasa ? Yes I agree that T.V. serials cant be trusted. And there are versions which wary from one source to another. But all are unanimous in Karna defeating Bhima and sparing his life. B.R. chopra did not show Draupadis infatuation on Karna. Ramanad sagar may have erred in the portrayel of Shabari butthe Ram Shabari meeting did take place.
    Thats my point. Even distorting there is a point which they cant go beyond. No mahabharat will show
    Bheesma doing Draupadis vastraharan and Dushasana rescuing Draupadi.

    Like

    • chiraan said:

      I do not see any justification in your post , if rama shabari meeting take place then bheema and karna duel did take place .
      vayu is as prana vayu and mukhya prana are two different entities ,
      Vayu was never approached by daityas as he is the foremost in hitting them ,
      as for Shiva slaying the daityas , EVen bramha has never slain any beings or demon , but that does not make Bramha left out . Vayu has equal role to Bramha .
      Ravana keeps on challenging every deity , he gives tough time to every one including SHiva , when he raises Kailash . when he takes aATMA linga , or When he takes away Parvati from him .
      He fights with varuna , indra yama . etc ,. But when he goes to VAyu irrespective of all the boons he gets defeated by a mere slap of just one rupa out of 3 crore rupas of VAYU . after that he never dares to go to VAyu loka ,.
      NO demon everr dares to GO to VAYU as he is invincible , VAYU loka is above MAHAR LOKA . demon’s activites are limited to maharloka only . there are 49maruts all are nown by name VAYU . we are talking about MUKHYAPRANA who is invincble according to VYASA himself , even karna accepts that in his speech to shalya .

      Like

  6. My query was how can bhima be superior to Lord Shiva. I Apologize for above typing error

    Like

  7. Shree Chiraan. Are you suggesting that Karna could never register a victory in his life over Bhima or for
    that matter Arjuna. Now I know that scholars like C. Rajagopalachari and Ganguly cant be trusted as
    its decided that their versions are not 100 % autthentic. But mistake is a thing which any human can make
    including you. Ganguly and Rajagopalachari do have discrepencies eg Draupadi Swayamavara etc.
    But both are unanimous in Karnas victories over Bhima and the act of sparing his life and even rendering
    Arjuna senseless in the final battle. B.R. Chopras serial mahabharata also confirms the same thing of
    Karna sparing Bhimas life. Now I know even T.V serials cant be 100% authentic. But a the same time they cant bluff and show utter nonsense. Because they are at risk of facing severe criticism from sankrit scholars
    as ekta kapoor discovered when she showed wrong things in her serial eg Devavratha fighting Shanatanu etc. But no sanskrit scholar objected to B.R Chopras serial showing Karna defeating Bhima or even when Karna
    defeated Arjuna on the first day of his command. All popular sources are unanimous on Karna superiority over Bhima. Karna has been known to fire divine weapons like Bharagava astra etc even in the battlefield of kurukshetra. Your blog says Bhima nullified the Bhargava astra and the Narayanastra. But to my knowledge
    Bhima did show some resitence to Naryayanastra but then on Lord Krishna insistance paid respect to it
    like everybody else. He did not nullify it. This is the english translation of Sri Raghavendra Tirtha’s
    Mahabharata-Tatparya-Nirnaya Bhava-Sangraha which I found in internet
    When Drona was killed by Dhrstadyumna, the Lord made Bhima pay
    respect to the Narayanastra (discharged by Asvatthama);
    I bow to this Lord Narayana. Here its clearly mentioned that Bhima paid respect to naryanastra not nullify it
    I have read some translation in Mahabharta tatparnirnay that Parshuramji told Karna that You shall defeat all
    whom you fight without competion. In that translation on internet it shows that Bhima respected Parshurams
    boon and purposely lost to Karna after unsettling him 21 times. Hence by that translation also its evident that
    Karna was not jealous of Bhima. Bhimas inability to nullify high powered astras is clearly seen in the
    Ashwatthama episode. When he fires the brahmastra its arjuna who comes to the rescue not bhima by firing
    a counter weopon. Even when Ashwatthama turns the astra to Uttaras womb its BhagwaanKrishna
    who comse to the rescue not Bhima. Your blog also says Bhima defeated Lord Shiva. I am sorry but I find
    thisimpossible. Brahma Vishnu Mahesh – Shiva are the trinity. Even Lord Ram worshipped Lord Shiva. How can Bhima be superior to Lord Shiva ?
    Bhima be superior to Lord Shiva.
    rescue
    reagards
    Niraj

    Like

    • chiraan said:

      NIRAJ -But a the same time they[tv serials and popular texts ] cant bluff and show utter nonsense. Because they are at risk of facing severe criticism from sankrit scholars .

      this is not true , because here we have praveen and others who believe shabari gave tasted fruits to lord RAMA ,. but none of the texts VALMIKI RAMAYANA , ADHYATMA RAMAYANA < other PURANAS have mentioned , yet SAGAR RAMAYANA showed shabari giving tasted fruits . here tooo none objected because , we are living in the world especially the eastern world rejoices histrionics . karna episode is also the same , there are films in south INDIA where KARNA is shown as superhero by NTR , SHIVAJI GANESHAN etc and it has been a blockbuster , PEOPLE think that is authentic . IN the film it is shown as if DRAUPADI had a secret LUST for KARNA ,. yet nobody objected it went on to become blockbuster . the story was twisted because a main lead was playing the KARNA . Similarly in another film , the main lead plays KEECHAK it is shown that BHEEMA kills him a by a knife given by DRAUPADI , this is yet anpother blockbuster ,
      TRUTH cannot be dependent on quantum of objection raised , THERE is no democratic principles applicable to TRUTH ,ie if majority feels something truth cannot be conveniently altered ,

      so logic that none had objected to such episodes of BHEEMA being spared so it must be correct is not tenable .

      2, coming to NARAYANA ASTRA , even when LORD KRISHNA says BOW TO NARAYANA ASTRA , everyone bows , BUT BHEEMASENA DOES NOT BOW TO astra . [ astra when it hits one dies , but BHEEMA is intact , when astra hit kARNA he was dead . NARAYANASTRA HAD NO FATAL effect on bheema
      3BHEEMA is superior to SHIVA .
      you have to understand RAJSUYA , if you are conveinced by doing some reaserch on this yagnya , it can be done only when everyone in universe is won .
      SHIVA Is head of MAHARLOKA .this loka is above Swarga [ hence shiva is greater than INDRA who heads swarga ] it is above surya loka [ surya loka is below indraloka swarga ]thus he is greaterthan surya and indra is greater than surya ,
      JANA TAPO AND SATYA LOKA are above MAHAR LOKA . BRAMHA is head of all the three lokas ,VAIKUNTHA IS ABOVE BRAMHA LOKA thus VISHNU IS SUPREME .
      HIGHER the LOKA greater is the head , so BRAMHA is greater than SHIVA , VAIKUNTHA IS ABOVE SATYA LOKA THUS VISHNU IS ABOVE ALL THE DEITIES ,
      VAYU IS EQUIVALENT TO BRAMHA ,t; HE IS BRAMHA OF NEXT UNIVERSE .
      This is mentioned in valmiki ramayan when RAMa embraces HANUMAN after HANUMAN gives chudamani of SEETA to RAMA . RAMA offers him the adhipatya of universe to HANUMAN ie VAYU , [ what an apt gift by apt KING ] .

      Bheema is HANUMAN ie incarnation of VAYU thus he is supreme to SHIVA ,. this fact is well established when BHEEMA kills jarsandha who had been granted boon by shiva ,. jimut who had been granted boon by shiva was also vanquished , there are many instances where boons of shiva have been overtaken y BHEEMA and HANUMAN . showiing their supremacy , VEDAS also declare VAYU to be superior to all devatas . shiva is mano abhimani devta only . VAYU is PRANABHIMANI devata , no PRANA means no manas .,you mind does not function if you have no prana . but without a mind you can still survive . this proves VAYU is superior ,.

      Like

      • Praveen Anand Nagesham said:

        Hello Mr. Chiran,

        “Bheema is HANUMAN ie incarnation of VAYU thus he is supreme to SHIVA ,. this fact is well established when BHEEMA kills jarsandha who had been granted boon by shiva ,. jimut who had been granted boon by shiva was also vanquished.”

        Ans: It is true that Bhima had defeated Jarasandha. But long before before Bhima , Karna had badly thrashed Jarasandha aand defeated. Karna knew the secret of Jarasandh’s death, when Karna was about to tear the body of Jarasandh, the latter accepted Karna as the winner and made friendship with him. Jarasandha also gifetd Karna the city of Champa. So Karna became the king of Anga and Champa cities. This incident indicates how fierce was Karna in prowess who defeated the terrible Jarasandha. Bhima defeated Jarasandha with the assistance of Krishna and after a fight of multiple days. Whereas Karna defeated Jarasandha without anybody’s help. The incident of battle between Karna and Jarasandha was told by Narad to Yudhisthira. Like Bhima Karna also counteracted the boons of Jarasandha given by Lord Shiva.

        Like

        • Raguraman said:

          Om Om Namo Narayanaya Om
          Om Shri Gurubhyo Namaha
          Om Shri Raghavendraya Namaha

          I do NOT know how Chiranji is going to answer. However if you think this somehow proves Karna is superior, it is NOT correct. There are clear instances where Bhima defeats Karna in less than one day.
          ========================================================
          http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08050.htm

          “Sanjaya continued,………………..Thus sped by the mighty Bhima, that shaft, making a noise loud as that of the thunder, pierced through thunderbolt Karna in that battle, like the thunderbolt itself piercing through a mountain. Struck by Bhimasena, O perpetuator of Kuru’s race, the Suta’s son, that commander (of thy forces), sat down senseless on the terrace of his car. The ruler of the Madras then, beholding the Suta’s son deprived of his senses, bore that ornament of battle away on his car, from that fight. Then after Karna’s defeat, Bhimasena began to rout the vast Dhartarashtra host like Indra routing the danavas.'”
          =================================================

          First, nobody achieves anything without Lord Krishna’s grace. So your point that Karna did it without Krishna is NOT right completely. He energizes every being as paramatma.

          Even according to Karna, Bhima is superior to all in respect of strength of limbs..

          ========================================================
          http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08050.htm

          “Sanjaya continued, ‘……Beholding Bhima, that delighter in battle, approaching him in that way, the son of Radha laughingly said unto Shalya these words, “The words that thou, O ruler of the Madras, hast today spoken to me regarding Bhima, O lord, are without doubt all true. This Vrikodara is brave and is a hero full of wrath. He is reckless in protecting his body, and in strength of limbs he is superior to all.
          =============================================================

          The story of Karna and Jarasandha says that both Karna and Jarasandha became carless and and were fighting hand to hand combat and that Karna was about to sever Jaransandha’s body…the following link has this story…

          http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12a005.htm

          Again Karna agrees that Bhima is superior in strength to himself.

          So why did Karna take lesser time in defeating Jarasandha? This is your question and perhaps mine too. Perhaps chiranji can clarify the events here.

          I suspect Jarasandha did NOT have the same enmity with Karna as with Bhima and Lord Krishna and hence did NOT feel the need to put the same effort as against Bhima. Even Lord Krishna did NOT defeat Jarasandha. It does NOT mean Lord Krishna is lesser than Karna.

          As for the question if karna nullified Lord Shiva’s boon, I am awaiting clarification.

          Like

          • Praveen Anand Nagesham said:

            Hello Mr Raghu Raman,

            I know that no one can achieve anything without Krishna’s grace. When we count Karna’s achievements u say that he got it with krishna’s grace. It means that Bhima and Arjuna are not superior to Karna because they won due to Krishna’s grace.

            Initially Bhima defeated Karna on the 14th day. Bhima also killed many brothers of Duryodhana who had come to save Karna from Bhima. Seeing the brothers of Duryodhana getting killed by Bhima Karna got enraged. Finally he defeated Bhima. All the weapons of Bhima were exhausted so he threw dead elephants at Karna which the latter broke into pieces with his arrows. Finally Karna held Bhima with the horn of his bow and told him ” do not fight with persons who are superior in warfare” At that time Krishna told Arjuna to save Bhima from Karna. Karna would have killed Bhima but he did not kill him as he had promised Kunti not to kill the four pandavas except Arjuna so that 5 sons of Kunti may remain in the eyes of the world.

            Jarasandh had challeged Karna after hearing his fame in proficiency in arms. How can u say that Jarasandh did not fight actively with Karna? After the battle is over Lord Krishna goes tp Dwarka and tells his father Vasudeva about details of MB war. Regarding Karna Krishna says ” The Suta’s Son was indeed a fierce warrior but he died like an insect after entering a blazing fire”

            When Karna goes to meet Bhishma before joining the Kauravas. Bhishma praises Karna by saying ” I know thy prowess in battle, which can with difficulty be borne on earth by foes! I know also thy regard for Brahmanas. thy courage, and thy great attachment to alms-giving! O thou that resemblest a very god, amongst men there is none like thee! For fear of intestine dissensions I always spoke harsh words about thee. In bowmanship, in aiming weapon, in lightness of hand and in strength of weapons, thou art equal to Phalguni himself, or the high-souled Krishna! O Karna, proceeding to the city of Kasi, alone with thy bow, thou hadst crushed the kings in battle for procuring a bride for the Kuru king! The mighty and invincible king Jarasandha also, ever boastful of his prowess in battle, could not become thy match in fight! Thou art devoted to Brahmanas; thou always fightest fairly! In energy and strength, thou art equal to a child of the celestials and certainly much superior to men.”

            Do you want to say that great Bhishma is telling lies. Please learn to respect those heroes who due to the course of fate could not win but their name will shine until the sun and moon will remain. The Kauravas were born with malice, the pandavas were born with the right to enjoy kingdom and have devotion to Krishna. Karna was born to give charities, make sacrifice for his brothers (Pandavas) and earn greater fame. Karna is the eldest pandavas. He is Jyesta Kaunteya. Lord Sun and Guru Parashuram had blessed Karna to enjoy immortal fame and his name will always shine like his father “Surya Narayana” In Bhishma Parva Sanjaya says” In the entire Kaurava army only Bhishma, Drona and Karna are a match for Arjuna, save these three no one can stay for even a second before Arjuna”

            Karna was created by God so that there should be a warrior among Kauravas who should be an equal match to Arjuna in prowess and the battle between them should be spectacular. At the tournament Karna had easily repeated the skills of Archery done by Arjuna. No battle in Mahabharata is as spectacular than that of Arjuna and Karna. Both were great heroes, both were sons of Kunti and both were liked by Lord Krishna.

            Radhe Krishna!

            Like

            • Whenever Karna runs away from battlefield after getting repeatedly defeated by BHEEMA , why can it not be assumed that BHEEMA could have killed KARNA but spared him for ARJUNA . THe question is not whether KARNA is good warrior or not . the discussion is whether KARNA is any match to ARJUNA and BHEEMA . The answer is NO because the incidents have proved it . There is no incidence where KARNA spared life of BHEEMA , KARNA was too happy to be left alone by BHEEMA [ because KArna had come on a PARSHURAAM’s chariot . ] BHEEMA spared him to honour boon .
              BHEESHMA praising and all is uder asura avesha . DEMONS clearly tell DURYODHAN after gandharva episode that they will possess BHEESHMA DRONA etc to aid him , SUch speech by BHEESHMA etc cannot be considered as authentic .

              note : KARNA never came to battlefield with all the equipments of success ie PASHURAM’s chariot , bOW , and Shakti all at once . THOUGH he knew he could not be vanquished in the chariot . he many a times came without it , He carried only shakti or bow vijay or chariot at one time . This shows he had serious doubts over efficacy of his own boons .THis is demonic quality they disbelieve the boons .
              Compare this with ARJUN who always was in KRISHNA’s chariot . HE always wore GANDIVA .
              This settles the matter ARJUN was far superior to KARNA . BHEEMA was invincible but spared KARNA for ARJUN .

              Like

        • Karna did not defeat JArasandha , Karna hit Jarasandha at the vulnerable point . Jarasandha could not bear the hit at weakness . He immediately thought this man is aware of my weakness , why not make friends with him as he will be of use in future . Praising Karna Jarasandha offers Truce and gifts the country of ANGA only not just champa . ANGA had been given by Duryodhan how come JARASANDHA gave it again ? Anga major portion was with jarasandha only a small portion was with HAstinapur . So please Karna Jarasandha gave complete Anga . KARNA was happy at this present and accepted TRUCE , its draw match .
          Whereas Shivas boon was avadhyatva [ no death ] which Karna was not able to kill . BHEEMASENA killed Jarasandha , 21 days of fight was to show he was mighty on account of SHIVA ‘s boon . You need 100 times more strength to kill , equal strength persons can defeat each other sometimes . even if you are strong four times , you can still lose , ten times you always win . 100 times or more you can kill . so bheem is much stronger . As karna could not kill he could not counteract shiva’s boon.

          Like

  8. Sadguru Lord Parshuram:

    Sri Vishnu is really very kind he not only taught Karna (despite his shortcomings) to quench his desire for knowledge but also inspired him towards nishkaam karma by giving him a boon disguised as a curse. Association to such sadgurus is always auspicious and life transforming even there curses are a boon in disguise.

    Just wondering are there any references of Karna in his future births like Arjuna incarnated as a bull to listen to Sri Madhavacharya’s teachings.

    Like

    • Praveen Anand Nagesham said:

      My dear friends! The story of Karna’s previous birth portraying him as an asura is merely a fiction. If the story of Karna giving donation to Brahmins before his death can be fiction then why can’t concept of his previous birth story be a fiction? We have not been notified in which text karna’s previous life has been portrayed. In Mahabharata previous life of following characters have been portrayed:

      Arjuna : Being Nara a divine sage and companion of Narayana. No doubt Arjuna is great because he is the masculine energy of Lord Vishnu in Krishna Avatar who himself is Narayana. They together are called two krishnas.

      Bhishma: He in his previous birth was a vasu named Dayu. Once on insistence of his wife Dayu stole Nandini the heavenly cow of Vashishta with his companions. The sage cursed Dayu to be born on earth and live a long painful life without any wife and children. Thus Dayu was born as Bhishma.

      Vidur: Vidur is an incarnation of Dharmaraj. Once he gave a wrong judgment and got sage Mandavya punished as a karma phala for a fault of piercing needles in bodies of flies when the latter was a little boy. Sage Mandavya showed his spiritual power and proved Dharmaraj wrong saying that offences commited by a person till age of early 11 years are not sins. The sage cursed Dharmaraj to take birth as human in a low caste and remain helpless inspite of seeing injustice being done in front of his eyes. Due to this curse Vidur could not stop the dice game and ill treatment of Pandavas though he was a wise and courageous man.

      Shikandi: He is non other than Amva who was kidnapped by Bhishma from swayamvar. She took revenge on Bhishma by taking rebirth as shikandi by Shiva’s boon. It was Shikandi who helped Arjuna to bring down Bhishma on 10th day of battle.

      Draupadi: She has been quoted with many stories of previous life. But she is considered as a part of Shachi. Some parts of Mahabharata consider Draupadi as a part of Shri.

      We do not find any more details of rebirth of any other particular character of Mahabharata. Of course the Sambhava Parva of MB shows brief details of birth of Devas and Danavas in form of kings and royal princes. The incarnation of devas party mentions names of Krishna (Narayana), Balrama (Ananta), Yudhisthira (Dharma) , Bhima (Vayu), Arjuna (Indra/Nara) Nakul & Sahdeva (Ashwins), Bhishma (Vasus), Karna (Surya), Drona (Brihaspati), Kripa(Rudras), Ashwathamaa (Yama, Mrityu & Mahadeva) . No where has karna been mentioned as being reborn being an asura in his previous life. So how can we believe this story. Of course Nara and Narayana once vanquished an arrogant king named Dambhodbhav. But that king was a human being who was humbled, he was not an asura.

      Kindly tell us in which scripture has story of Karna’s previous life has been mentioned? Without telling this all points pointing faults of Karna will be futile. I would also suggest do not connect devotion to lord hari with matter of Karna. Thats all!

      Regards
      Praveen

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      • Kindly read mahabaharta properly especially Karna parva …. when Karna is about to be slain KRISHNA inspires ARJUNA by saying HE is DAMBODBHAVA your old enemy of previous life slay him with powerful astras……………..
        what better reference is required than this ..

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        • perhaps You shall not believe sanksrit version of BYASA mahabharata …
          here is foreign version translation karna parva ——————- http://www.guruji.it/mahabharata/files/karna_parva_125-131.html
          129: Il duello fra Arjuna e Karna
          Fu Krishna ad incoraggiare il Pandava raccontandogli una storia che lo riguardava.

          “Arjuna, tu non lo ricordi, ma nella vita precedente noi due eravamo i saggi Nara e Narayana e vivevamo pacificamente sulle pendici himalayane. Un giorno passò nei pressi del nostro eremo il re Dambodbhava; dopo un pò tra di voi nacque uno screzio che vi portò a combattere un feroce duello e, infine, tu lo uccidesti usando il brahmastra. Il tuo nemico di oggi è quel re reincarnato, e puoi ucciderlo ancora usando la stessa arma. Non tardare, fallo al più presto.”

          Per grazia del Signore, Arjuna ricordò chiaramente tutti gli avvenimenti della sua vita precedente e la storia della sua inimicizia con Dambodbhava. Allora raddoppiò i suoi sforzi e pressò duramente Karna, mettendolo in seria difficoltà

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          • In case Italian is unintelligible the here is google translation of same into english ‘

            Italian to English translation

            129: The duel between Arjuna and Karna
            Krishna to encourage the Pandava told him a story concerning him.

            “Arjuna, you do not remember, but in a previous life we two were the sages Nara and Narayana and lived peacefully on the Himalayan slopes. One day came near our retreat Dambodbhava the king, after a while arose a disagreement that led to fight a vicious battle and, ultimately, you using the brahmastra and slain. Your enemy now is the King reincarnated as KARNA, and you can still kill him using the same weapon. Do not delay, do quickly. ”

            By the grace of the Lord, Arjuna remembered clearly all the events of his past life and history of his enmity with Dambodbhava. Then redoubled his efforts and harshly at Karna, putting him into serious difficulties

            ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

            so with half knowledge one must not venture into fictitious comments ……. Karna was demon incarnate ……… Have you ever seen human fighting with NARAYANA and devatas …… its always demons who fight ………..

            DO you think this proof is enough for you to swallow the bitter pill ……………..

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  9. Praveen Anand Nagesham said:

    Hello Mr Chiran,

    I know about this story of Karna as told by Narad but you have missed some parts. I would like to know from which authors translation did you get this story. Mr. Sonu pointed out that sacred text is not genuine I have already answered him for that but here the story sequence appears from sacred texts itself. I have already read this story I would like to point the sequences in the story that you have missed. We are discussing on a person from MB the longest epic of the world so how can I say things in precise, I am a professional blog and content writer plus editor. Please read carefully and understand the interpretations that I say at the end of each point.

    1) Karna. one day approached Drona in private and said these words unto him, ‘I desire to be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, with all its mantras and the power of withdrawing it, for I desire to fight Arjuna. Without doubt, the affection thou bearest to every one of thy pupils is equal to what thou bearest to thy own son. I pray that all the masters of the science of weapons may, through thy grace, regard me as one accomplished in weapons!’ Thus addressed by him, Drona, from partiality for Phalguna, as also from his knowledge of the wickedness of Karna (Drona was partial to arjuna than its natural that his rival would appear wicked to him), said, ‘None but a Brahmana, who has duly observed all vows, should be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, or a Kshatriya that has practised austere penances, and no other.’ ( Narad says that Drona was partial to Arjuna that means Arjuna initially got the protection of Drona who removed powerful rivals of Arjuna like Eklavya and Karna from the his path by using diplomacy this is same like a teacher giving more marks to his favorite student and giving zero to those that are capable like his favorite student but his rivals)

    2) Narada said, “That tiger of Bhrigu’s race (viz., Rama), was well-pleased with the might of Karna’s arms, his affection (for him), his self-restraint, and the services he did unto his preceptor. Observant of ascetic penances, Rama cheerfully communicated, with due forms, unto his penance-observing disciple, everything about the Brahma weapon with the mantras for withdrawing it. Having acquired a knowledge of that weapon, Karna began to pass his days happily in Bhrigu’s retreat, and endued with wonderful prowess, he devoted himself with great ardour to the science of weapons.” ( these lines prove that Karna was a diligent student as Arjuna and he used to do penances that is the main requirement for acquiring divine weapons being a Brahmin or Kshtriya is a secondary condition, still Drona didn’t teach him advanced weapons why because he was considered as a Suta by the society? )

    3) “Then Rama wrathfully addressed Karna, saying, ‘O fool, no Brahmana could endure such agony. Thy patience is like that of a Kshatriya. Tell me the truth, without fear.’ Thus asked, Karna, fearing to be cursed, and seeking to gratify him, said these words, ‘O thou of Bhrigu’s race, know me for a Suta, a race that has sprung from the intermixture of Brahmanas with Kshatriyas. People call me Karna the son of Radha. O thou of Bhrigu’s race, be gratified with my poor self that has acted from the desire of obtaining weapons. There is no doubt in this that a reverend preceptor in the Vedas and other branches of knowledge is one’s father. It was for this that I introduced myself to thee as a person of thy own race.’ Unto the cheerless and trembling Karna, prostrated with joined hands upon earth, that foremost one of Bhrigu’s race, smiling though filled with wrath, answered, ‘Since thou hast, from avarice of weapons, behaved here with falsehood, therefore, O wretch, this Brahma weapon shalt not dwell in thy remembrance 1. Since thou art not a Brahmana, truly this Brahma weapon shall not, up to the time of thy death, dwell in thee when thou shalt be engaged with a warrior equal to thyself! 2 Go hence, this is no place for a person of such false behaviour as thou! On earth, no Kshatriya will be thy equal in battle.’ Thus addressed by Rama, Karna came away, having duty taken his leave. Arriving then before Duryodhana, he informed him, saying, ‘I have mastered all weapons!'” ( Of course Parashurama was angry with lie of Karna so he cursed him but he also said on the earth no Kshtriya will be his equal in battle that means even after getting cursed Karna was considered to be invincible in battle by many. In which book Parashurama has said that Karna would be defeated when he fights with a feeling of competition, two warriors generally fight with each other either due to enemity or sense of competition or duel if we take your lines in consideration then Karna would never have been be able to even lift weapons against Arjuna because there was rivalry between him and Arjuna).

    4) Once on a time, O monarch, many kings repaired to a self-choice at the capital of Chitrangada, the ruler of the country of the Kalingas. The city, O Bharata, full of opulence, was known by the name of Rajapura. Hundreds of rulers repaired thither for obtaining the hand of the maiden. Hearing that diverse kings had assembled there, Duryodhana. also, on his golden car, proceeded thither, accompanied by Karna. When the festivities commenced in that self-choice, diverse rulers, O best of kings, came thither for the hand of the maiden. There were amongst them Sisupala and Jarasandha and Bhishmaka and Vakra, and Kapotaroman and Nila and Rukmi of steady prowess, and Sringa who was ruler of the kingdom females, and Asoka and Satadhanwan and the heroic ruler of the Bhojas. Besides these, many others who dwelt in the countries of the South, and many preceptors (in arms) of the mlechcha tribes, and many rulers from the East and the North, O Bharata, came there. All of them were adorned with golden Angadas, and possessed of the splendour of pure gold. Of effulgent bodies, they were like tigers of fierce might. After all those kings had taken their seats, O Bharata, the maiden entered the arena, accompanied by her nurse and a guard of eunuchs. Whilst being informed of the names of the kings (as she made her round), that maiden of the fairest complexion passed by the son of Dhritarashtra (as she had passed others before him). Duryodhana, however, of Kuru’s race, could not tolerate that rejection of himself. Disregarding all the kings, he commanded the maiden to stop. Intoxicated with the pride of energy, and relying upon Bhishma and Drona, king Duryodhana, taking up that maiden on his car, abducted her with force. Armed with sword, clad in mail, and his fingers cased in leathern fences, Karna, that foremost of all wielders of weapons riding on his car, proceeded along Duryodhana’s rear. A great uproar then took place among the kings, all of whom were actuated by the desire for fight, ‘Put on your coats of mail! Let the cars be made ready!’ (These were the sounds that were heard). Filled with wrath, they pursued Karna and Duryodhana, showering their arrows upon them like masses of clouds pouring rain upon a couple of hills. As they thus pursued them, Karna felled their bows and arrows on the ground, each with a single arrow. Amongst them some became bowless, some rushed bow in hand, some were on the point of shooting their shafts, and some pursued them, armed with darts and maces. Possessed of great lightness of hands, Karna, that foremost of all smiters, afflicted them all. He deprived many kings of their drivers and thus vanquished all those lords of earth. They then themselves took up the reins of their steeds, and saying, ‘Go away, go away’, turned away from the battle with cheerless hearts. Protected by Karna, Duryodhana also came away, with a joyous heart, bringing with him the maiden to the city called after the elephant.” See the lines :-Karna, that foremost of all smiters, afflicted them all. He deprived many kings of their drivers and thus vanquished all those lords of earth. It means that inspite of being cursed Karna had alone vanquished many rulers including Jarasandha (Killed by Bhima with assistance of Krishna), Shishupala and Rukmi ( who were killed and defeated by krishna respectively) at the swayamwar a feat similar to arjuna defeating kings at Draupadi Swayamwar.

    5) “Narada said, ‘Hearing of the fame of Karna’s might, the ruler of the Magadhas, king Jarasandha, challenged him to a single combat. Both conversant with the celestial weapons, a fierce battle took place between them in which they struck each other with diverse kinds of arms. At last when their arrows were exhausted and bows and swords were broken and they both became carless, they began, possessed of might as they were, to fight with bare arms. While engaged with him in mortal combat with bare arms, Karna was about to sever the two portions of his antagonist’s body that had been united together by Jara. The king (of Magadha), then after feeling himself very much pained, cast off all desire of hostility and addressed Karna, saying, ‘I am gratified.’ From friendship he then gave unto Karna the town Malini. Before this, that tiger among men and subjugator of all foes (viz., Karna) had been king of the Angas only, but from that time the grinder of hostile forces began to rule over Champa also, agreeably to the wishes of Duryodhana, as thou knowest. Thus Karna became famous on earth for the valour of his arms. ( These lines indicated that before Bhima, Karna had already defeated Jarasandha without taking anybody’s help, he also knew the secret of killing Jarasandha he was very strong and was capable in mortal combat, bhima killed jarasandha with the aid of krishna and karna defeated jarasandha by his own power so how can it be believed that Bhima was successful in snatching the kingdom from karna during his military campaign in the east. May be the battle between them may have been ended as a stalemate and a peace allaince may be signed between Bhima and Karna.)

    6) When, for thy good, the Lord of the celestials begged of him his (natural) coat of mail and ear-rings, stupefied by celestial illusion, he gave away those precious possessions. Deprived of his car-rings and divested of his natural armour, he was slain by Arjuna in Vasudeva’s presence. In consequence of a Brahmana’s curse, as also of the curse of the illustrious Rama, of the boon granted to Kunti and the illusion practised on him by Indra, of his depreciation by Bhishma as only half a car-warrior, at the tale of Rathas and Atirathas, of the destruction of his energy caused by Salya (with his keen speeches), of Vasudeva’s policy, and, lastly of the celestial weapons obtained by Arjuna from Rudra and Indra and Yama and Varuna and Kuvera and Drona and the illustrious Kripa, the wielder of Gandiva succeeded in slaying Vikartana’s son Karna of effulgence like that of Surya himself. Even thus had thy brother been cursed and beguiled by many. As, however, he has fallen in battle, thou shouldst not grieve for that tiger among men!'” ( These lines told by Narad prove that for benefiting the sons of Pandu Indra begged his armour and ear rings and they were not ordinary that anybody could disregard them they were precious. Narad also says Bhishma depreciated Karna’s confidence by considering him as a half car warrior why because Bhishma feared that inspite of getting cursed and being defeated by arjuna karna was still very dangerous for Arjuna and the pandavas. Shalya also did the same with karna. Narad also says that Karna was killed by arjun due to the weapons obtained by Arjun from devas including Drona and Kripa. Which weapons ? Karna was also learning from Drona and Kripa so why didn’t they teach those weapons to Karna who was perfect in archery and a diligent student like Arjuna. Basic requirement for learning an advanced science is capability and hard work karna had these in him that’s why Parashurama taught him then why didn’t Drona and Kripa teach him. Finally Narad tells Yudhisthira that his brother Karna was beguiled (cheated) by many. Who were the men who cheated Karna Drona, Bhishma, Indra or Shalya morever if Karna was weaker than arjuna then what was the need of cheating him. Trap is laid generally for a tiger or lion not a jackal. Narad also says the word Vasudeva’s policy what policy did lord krishna use for eliminating Karna for sake of Pandavas and if Krishna used any policy against Karna then it means Karna was not an ordinary warrior though cursed he had a far good calibre than arjuna and pandavas thats why many people had to use deception as well as curses to make him weak.)

    Mr. Chiran you didn’t mention all sequences of the entire story I have mentioned them in points and these sequences prove that in calibre and efficiency Karna was superior to Arjuna that’s why many people used strategies like cheating and curses to weaken him in front of Arjuna. Arjuna defeated Karna because of diplomacies used by Drona, Indra, Bhishma and Shalya and curse of Parashurama he didn’t defeat Karna by his prowess. (Karna’s enemity for the Pandavas is a different subject)

    I don’t say that Arjuna is not a great warrior and archer of course he is but he got it with the protection of his seniors and Karna achieved proficiency with his own efforts and inspite of curses he was invincible and had to be cheated by many people to bring his downfall. That means long before when Karna broke the bow of Abhimanyu at command of Drona, long before when Karna was made the king of Anga, long before when karna was defeated by arjun at Virat he himself was unjustly cheated and exploited by many except Parashurama and the Brahmin. So calling Karna inferior to Bhimasena or Arjuna won’t be fair.

    Conclusion:- One should not believe in words heard from here and there he should also investigate the meaning hidden in those words and kindly give complete information on any character ( his great achievements and failures) to avoid readers from getting confused.

    Thanks

    Jai Shri Krishna

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    • chiraan said:

      we have already established sacred texts version is distorted and manipulated , if you dogmatically stick to that version questioning our ability to interprete mahabharta than there is no discussion here , kindly prove your source if your source is unauthentic , and hence however uou make a sequence it is distorted . read other good versions in local languages and sanskrit in particular , twisting the words in translation is not going to help .

      let me show distortions

      “Narada said, ‘Hearing of the fame of Karna’s might, the ruler of the Magadhas, king Jarasandha, challenged him to a single combat.

      this story of combat with jarasandha of kArna is during swayamvar of Duryodhan wife who is incidentaly jarasandha’s daughter .
      after Duryodhan kidnapps the daughter , it is karna who asks him to elope while karna holds Jarasandha to a fight ,

      Loook at the distortion in your version , there is no correllation ,.

      2. ( these lines prove that Karna was a diligent student as Arjuna and he used to do penances that is the main requirement for acquiring divine weapons being a Brahmin or Kshtriya is a secondary condition, still Drona didn’t teach him advanced weapons why because he was considered as a Suta by the society? )

      Possibly you are throwing a blind eye , Had Karna not lied to Parshurama as Bramhin he would not have been accepted . which DRONA also did the same .
      KArna had to act like a bramhin , as he had lied so . main requirement of weapon is to be bramhin or kshatriya and nothing else ,
      the analogy is one has to have minimum eligibility criteria for entering IIT . but if one rigs the eligibillty criteria and enter s the campus upon being caught one is barred for life , you cannot encourage people to rig the case just because eligibity criteria is missing ,

      As for LORD he knew he was kshatriys so he TAUGHT him and then withdrew the teachings once it was clear he rigged . nothing wrong .
      God has been impartial KARNA was clearly at fault .

      NOW you cannot claim your scared version is correct ours is wrong without tangible proof , BUT we have conclusively proved sacred text is distorted and far from truth ,

      3.Mr. Chiran you didn’t mention all sequences of the entire story I have mentioned them in points and these sequences prove that in calibre and efficiency Karna was superior to Arjuna that’s why many people used strategies like cheating and curses to weaken him in front of Arjuna.

      I dont understand how by defining new sequence Karna becomes better than ARJUN , it seems you have run out of logic and are running helter skelter to prove something which is non existent .

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  10. Dear Sir,

    As you mentioned earlier only Rajsik, Tamsik or people with mixed nature would sympathize with Karna. I believe this post very well illustrates the fine line of intent which Karna faltered to adhere to time and again.

    I have had sympathies for Karna and I believe only true knowledge would help people suffering from Karna Sympathy Syndrome 🙂 So on this note kindly illustrate the following points.

    1) Why Karna harbored such terrible jealousy against Arjuna that he even grew weary of Lord Krishna ?

    2) Are there any instances which show that Karna was not all bad and he intended some good also, What are his achievements which are really appreciable ?

    3) Did Lord Krishna did not even had an iota of sympathy for him (Lord is very kind, So please illustrate how he tried to help Karna but Karna failed to capitalize on it) ?

    4) Would Lord Parshuram have forgiven Karna or would have been more sympathetic had he lied only to gain knowledge (From vedic perspective what can such people do who are fueled by such blinding desire to gain knowledge but are trapped under severe constraints owing to karmas) ?

    5) Please further elaborate on following lines :-
    Yudhisthir Asks NARAD muni “ How did Karna get curses ?” Narad muni says, this is Dev Rahasya but yet I would tell you. To decrease the Kshatriya population Sun got a brilliant son from Kunti.

    Looking forward to hear from you. Wishing the very best.

    Sincerely.

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    • chiraan said:

      1) Why Karna harbored such terrible jealousy against Arjuna that he even grew weary of Lord Krishna ?
      mATSARYA IRSHYA ASUYA ARE AMONG THE SHADVAIRIS THAT ATTACK EVERY HUMAN AND SOULS ON EARTH , IT IS AN EMOTION THAT DOES NOT HAVE ANY SOLUTION EXCEPT DISSOLVING A SENSE OF COMPETITION , ACCORDING TO SHASTRAS SPARDHA IS NOT A GOOD QUALITY. ONE HAS TO STUDY AND PERFORM NISHKAAM KARMA ATTRIBUTING EVERYTHING TO LORD . SO ONES ACHIEVEMENTS AND SUCCESS ALL SHOULD BE ATTRIBUTED LORD , THE OTHER MANS’ SUCCESS IS ALSO A LORD’S VERDICT . SO SUCCESS AND FAILURE SHOULD NOT FORM THE BASIS OF KARMA .KARMA SHOULD BE PERFORMED AS PER TRADITION AND ONLY AS DUTY AND TO PLEASE GOD , SPARDHA IS DONE TO SHOW ONE UPMANSHIP , IN MADHVA TRADITION ONE CANNOT WIN AGAINST SUPERIORS , SO ONE HUMBLY DECEDES SUCCESS TO SUPERIORS . SO SPRDHA IS IMMATERIAL . WHEN ONE GETS INTO MODE OF SPARDHA ONE GETS JEALOUSY ILLFEELINGS ETC , KARNA HAD SPARDHA WITH ARJUN , IT WAS NOT VICE VERSA .THUS ARJUN WAS SUPERIOR .

      2) Are there any instances which show that Karna was not all bad and he intended some good also, What are his achievements which are really appreciable ?
      I DO NOT SEE ANY INCIDENT , HE LEFT YUDHISTHIR IN THE BATTLEFIELD [THUS BETRAYED DURYODHAN ] SO IN ALL HIS ACTIONS THERE WAS AHAM BECAUSE I HAVE GIVEN WORD I SHALL NOT DO THIS , BECAUSE THIS MY INTEREST I SHALL DO THIS . THIS IS NOT APPRECIABLE QUALITY , WHEREAS , ARJUN DOES ONLY BECAUSE KRISHNA SAID SO , BHEEMA SAID SO , DRONA SAID SO . SO HE NEVER DEFAULTED , AND BECAUSE OF THIS QUALITY HE WAS GUIDED ALSO , IN CASE OF KARNA GUIDANCE WAS NO FACTOR BECAUSE HE WAS ALWAYS SELFISH . WE CANNOT SAY HE WAS MISGUIDED YOUTH , BECAUSE HE HAD THE BEST EDUCATION FROM BEST MAN PARSHURAM [ PURUSHOTTAM] NOW IT WILL BE CHILDISH TO SAY LORD MIGHT NOT HAVE GIVEN HIM LESSONS IN MORALITY OR GOOD OR BAD , ILLUSIONS AND DISILLUSIONS . BUT HE CONVENIENTLY CHOSE TO IGNORE THEM FOR DURYODHAN BECAUSE IT GAVE HIM OPPORTUNITY TO RIVAL ARJUN ,

      3) Did Lord Krishna did not even had an iota of sympathy for him (Lord is very kind, So please illustrate how he tried to help Karna but Karna failed to capitalize on it) ?
      lORD PARSHURAM AND LORD KRISHA ARE NO DIFFERENT THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME . IT IS LORD WHO HAS HELPED HIM TAUGHT HIM EQUIPPED HIM WITH ASTRAS ,GAVE HIM KINGDOM , WEALTH POWER FAME EVEN THOUGH HE WAS REFREED AS SUTA , INDIRECTLY GOD GAVE HIM ALL THE RESULTS OF KSHATRIYA . WITHOUT GOD NONE WOULD HAVE COME TO HIS RESCUE , HAD PARSHURAM NOT TAUGHT HIM EVEN DURYODHAN WOULD HAVE CALLED HIM A SUTA AND ASKED TO DRIVE HIS CHARIOT ,
      21 TIMES BHEEMA SPARED HIS LIFE ,. ONLY AT THE INSTANCE OF LORD KRISHNA . THERE WAS NEVER FIGHT UNTO DEATH WAR BETWEEN ARJUN AND KARNA , KARNA ALWAYS FAINTED OR RAN AWAY BY THE GRACE OF LORD . lORD ALSO GAVE HIM OPPORTUNITY TO STOP WAR AND GAIN IMMENSE FAME . BUT SELFISH MAN HAD NO FAITH !!!!!!!! HE FELT A FIGHT WITH ARJUN AS GREATER VIRTUE THAN PEACE OF THE WORLD .

      4) Would Lord Parshuram have forgiven KarNa or would have been more sympathetic had he lied only to gain knowledge (From vedic perspective what can such people do who are fueled by such blinding desire to gain knowledge but are trapped under severe constraints owing to karmas) ?
      WE ARE TALIKING OF ERA PEOPLE LIVED BY DHARMA , BRAMHINS CURSED IF THEY SENSED DEFAULT OF DHARMA OR DECIET . KARNA RISKED IT , THAT SHOWS HE WAS BLINDED WITH GREED . NOT KNOWING BRAMHASTRA WOULD HAVE PUT HIM BELOW ARJUN ONCE FOR ALL . AS HE COULD NOT RECOLLECT IT ,THAT ITSELF SHOWS HE WAS INFERIOR . PARSHURAM STILL GAVE HIM BHARGAV ASTRA . IS IT NOT FORGIVANCE . A PLAIN FORGIVING WOULD SET A BAD PRECEDENCE OF LYING TO GAIN ASTRAS . ASTRAS ARE VERY POWERFUL WEAPONS , IT CAN DESTROY WORLD IN MINUTES , IF SOMEONE WITH CHARACTERISTIC DEFECTS LIKE ANGER DECEIT GREED UNTRUTHFUL , GETS IT , WHAT IS THE FATE OF THE WORLD . SO PRIMARY RESPONSIBILTY OF TEACHER IS TO ENSURE THAT IT FALLS IN RIGHTFULL HANDS OF BRAMHACHARYA PENACE . INDRIYA NIGRAHA AND TRUTHFUL PEOPLE , BRAMHINS AND KSHATRIYAS HAVE IT NATURALLY , KARNA DID NOT HAVE IT , HENCE HE WAS GIVEN CURSE ,

      5) Please further elaborate on following lines :-
      Yudhisthir Asks NARAD muni “ How did Karna get curses ?” Narad muni says, this is Dev Rahasya but yet I would tell you. , To decrease the Kshatriya population Sun got a brilliant son from Kunti.

      AS KRISHNA WAS ABOUT TO APPEAR ON EARTH , ALL THE DEVATAS TOOK BIRTH IN KSHATRIYA FAMILIES .DEVATAS ARE BY NATURE TRUTHFUL AND DHARMA ABIDING , THUS THEIR OFFSPRING WOULD ALSO BE SAME ,. BUT KALIYUG HAD TO START IMMEDIATELY THEN IT WAS NECCESSARY THAT THESE FAMILIES CEASE TO EXIST . IF THEY ARE KILLED BY ORDINARY PEOPLE LAWS OF KARMA WOULD COMEL THEM TO REBIRTH , THUS DRONA AND KARNA TAKE BIRTH TO ELIMINATE THESE KINGS WITHOUT KARMA LEPA ,

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      • Riemann said:

        Hi chiraan, i have been through everything you have said in this post. i am a mathematician and got obsessed with sanskrit.. i have read the karna parva as-is.. nothing validates..

        secondly on reverse engineering verses.. no where with any logic should any one interpret this: (i.e. if you understand what logic is). SPARDHA IS IMMATERIAL ..afaik what the verses convey is something very simple.. results might be beyond control.. that does not mean competition is immaterial.. you need to still compete, competition lays down, up to some extent the basis of “superiority” .

        in the widest sense, spardha may or may not decide the outcome.. so sometimes it can and sometimes it cannot and,

        in the very very (read utmost) widest sense, the fruits of spardha are meant to be enjoyed by all and not just some particular player.. have you heard about how competing firms eventually create value for the end-consumer???.. dude, seriously you need to enrich your perspective.. its too narrow !!!

        thirdly, on SPARDHA WITH ARJUNA.. this crosses all boundaries of “laughability”.. well i have only read karna parva as-is… but beyond that i have relied on concise translations.. and it seems, you narrow perception rejects the notion of karna embroiled in a spardha with the entire princely order and not just arjuna.. arjuna is just a symbolic representation.. he was what we may call .. a representative of .the class-struggle for the LOWER CLASSES.. and, he had a point to prove.

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        • Hello riemann

          I reproduce your quote
          “Hi chiraan, i have been through everything you have said in this post. i am a mathematician and got obsessed with sanskrit.. i have read the karna parva as-is.. nothing validates.. ”

          I dont know Both you and mR Praveen and karna fans swear by sacred text Mahabharata ………….. Mahabhrata is written by VEDAVYASA ..in sanskrit …….. [ you are obssessed with sanskrit ] …….. sacred texts has sanskrit version of MAHABHARATA ………………… and KM ganguly ver sion of english Translation .,

          i reproduce the verses of scared texts in snaskrit ,……………… [ let me see if your obssessed mind sees the word danbodbhava ]

          http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/mbs/mbs08065.htm

          18 yayā dhṛtyā nihataṃ tāmasāstraṃ; yuge yuge rākṣasāś cāpi ghorāḥ
          dambhodbhavāś cāsurāś cāhaveṣu; tayā dhṛtyā tvaṃ jahi sūtaputram

          this is karna parva 65th chapter 18 shloka from sacred texts ………………….. why your obsession with sanskrit fails to see clear things ………… perhaps brain is tutored to see what it is instructed ……..

          in case you say sacredtext version of vyasa is not authentic then KM ganguly version at sacred texts will also be not authentic ……
          I attache maharishi institute vedic reserve copy of karna parva …………….
          https://chiraan.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=1098
          readers should especially give attention to the word danbhodbahava asura avesha written by BHAGAVAN VEDA VYASA to prove the theory of aura avesha …………………………….

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          • It is very much evident that KISAR MOHAN GANGULY did not translate verse by verse mahabharata …….. he has compiled from various hearsay versions …….

            Yet KARNA fans an authentic and superior material in KM sacredtexts version …………………….. Sacred texts versions guys are like the three idot character who narrate without knowing meaning of the texts ……………………. they publish sanskrit vesion and english vesion which has no correlation and yet obsessions of sanskrit from ratinal mathematicians finds nothing to validate ,……. God knows whether 2 +2 validates obsessively into 4

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Dear Readers , If you are asking a query , Kindly do not forget to worship SRIMAN NARAYANA and HANUMANJI and then write a number within 1800 followed by single digit number [ within 1-8 ] ,kindly Give time and current Place where you are asking query from ! , followed by number of virtual beetle leaves ,nuts and fruits you would like to give astrologer , and clear place ,time and date of birth . [take your hands off keyboard ] TOUCH a BODY part and kindly mention which part of the body Your hand is touching [ sprishtanga ] .... state your problem clearly , let us know what is it that your are looking for without ambiguity ! start and end with salutation to HARI ! If above procedure is not adhered to ,then no answers will be given !

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